is there a real substitute for llalemand kolsch yeast

[Draft Master Flash]

Thanks for sharing this -- I'm doing a Kolsch this weekend and was planning on using NovaLager so it's great to know you've had good results with it!

No problem, I think you'll be pleased with the results!


DMF.

 

[HM-2]

2-3 days in a starter to get going!

It's a weird one and a testament to how much variance we see in our hobby. I've done probably a dozen batches with Köln and with the exception of 2 occasions I've got ~83% attenuation instead of the ~77%ish I usually achieve despite having lower fermentability worts, it's been solid as a rock from initial pitch to kegging.


Never had fermentation take more than ~24 hours to start, even when I've accidently cooled down to 15°C pre pitch and not run with any heating.

Never had it throw any esters other than a vague hint of stone fruit or apple/pear, even at 25°C.


As I mentioned it's been my house NEIPA yeast for about 15 months, precisely because it's been exceptionally reliable and predictable for me. Every beer I've made with it has been "great" or better except for one which was oxidised by a CO2 fitting failure, which you can hardly pin on Köln. IMO it's much better than either Verdant or New England in Lallemand 's range for hazies. And I literally dump it straight into the fermenter in dry form during transfer, no rehydration, no starters, no additional oxygen.

 

[fluketamer]

It's a weird one and a testament to how much variance we see in our hobby. I've done probably a dozen batches with Köln and with the exception of 2 occasions I've got ~83% attenuation instead of the ~77%ish I usually achieve despite having lower fermentability worts, it's been solid as a rock from initial pitch to kegging.


Never had fermentation take more than ~24 hours to start, even when I've accidently cooled down to 15°C pre pitch and not run with any heating.

Never had it throw any esters other than a vague hint of stone fruit or apple/pear, even at 25°C.


As I mentioned it's been my house NEIPA yeast for about 15 months, precisely because it's been exceptionally reliable and predictable for me. Every beer I've made with it has been "great" or better except for one which was oxidised by a CO2 fitting failure, which you can hardly pin on Köln. IMO it's much better than either Verdant or New England in Lallemand 's range for hazies. And I literally dump it straight into the fermenter in dry form during transfer, no rehydration, no starters, no additional oxygen.

very similar experiecne for me. this is a really good yeast imo. shame its going going gone. it has made me my best beers in a while much more forgiving than my lager yeasts in similar grain bills. super clean. drops like a rock and repitching it without a problem.

i am afraid i will only get about 5 pitches out of this pack. before its gone for good

 

[beersk]

The problem with 2565 is the white grape ester it creates. I have not once tasted that in any commercial German kolsch, namely Fruh, Reissdorf, Sunner, and Geoffel being the main ones I drink most often. They just don't have that flavor.

So if I were to use a dry yeast for a kolsch or liquid even, I'd probably go with 34/70 or 2124 and ferment it in the 60s. Or maybe ferment US-05 under pressure at a lower temp.

Alright, I admit fault, at least partially. lol I had a Reissdorf on tap at Hessen Haus in Des Moines last week after an Iowa Cubs game and got a very slight, maybe, white grape ester from it. The friend I was with agreed. But it was subtle. Still, I don't think that's an absolute requisite for good Kolsch as I don't taste it in all Kolsch biers I drink.

Either way, let us know how the Novalager turns out. Maybe I'll end up trying it one of these days.

EDIT: Maybe I was looking for that flavor, I don't know. But it had been a while since I'd had that beer too. And, to me, it's the quintessential Kolsch.

 

[Dog House Brew]

Kolsch has such a stylistic taste. To me it’s by itself. Like most here, I’ve tried all the yeasts. While I don’t mind 2565, there are others I like more. I will try the Omega. I’ve been running Giga021 for the last 8 years maybe. I love 021 and will keep going until I lose it somehow.
My last batch I used High Plains Pilsner and it fantastic. Not sure why everyone wants to use non Kolsch yeast and call it a Kolsch.

 

[fluketamer]

i repitched my llalemand kolsch yesterday and i forgot to oxygenate and i pitched too warm. 73 degrees. im cooling it down a little to 60 's but would you open the FV and oxygenate now or is it too late. it seems to be lagging compared to last time.

 

[Dog House Brew]

i repitched my llalemand kolsch yesterday and i forgot to oxygenate and i pitched too warm. 73 degrees. im cooling it down a little to 60 's but would you open the FV and oxygenate now or is it too late. it seems to be lagging compared to last time.

Leave it, you’ll be fine

 

[beersk]

Kolsch has such a stylistic taste. To me it’s by itself. Like most here, I’ve tried all the yeasts. While I don’t mind 2565, there are others I like more. I will try the Omega. I’ve been running Giga021 for the last 8 years maybe. I love 021 and will keep going until I lose it somehow.
My last batch I used High Plains Pilsner and it fantastic. Not sure why everyone wants to use non Kolsch yeast and call it a Kolsch.

Fair enough. I guess it's like using a witbier yeast to make a hefeweizen. It's really just not the same. Some might be fooled but anyone with any beer tasting experience will know.
I'm kind of amazed there aren't other actual dry kolsch yeast options. Same with Irish Ale dry yeast options. I'd love to have a dry version of wyeast 1084.

 

[Dog House Brew]

Fair enough. I guess it's like using a witbier yeast to make a hefeweizen. It's really just not the same. Some might be fooled but anyone with any beer tasting experience will know.
I'm kind of amazed there aren't other actual dry kolsch yeast options. Same with Irish Ale dry yeast options. I'd love to have a dry version of wyeast 1084.

100% agree

 

[fluketamer]

so i recently had a flight that included a kolsch and i was very impressed by the fact that the kolsch tasted very true to style. not like a pilsner or light lager.

i agree the kolsch is in the yeast otherwise its really just a cold conditioned pseudolager. or lager grain and hops with an ordinary ale yeast . not exactly the same.

but i definately think that most people wouldnt bea ble to tell the diference if you brewed the same hops and grain with a very clean ale yeast like notty in the low 60's or if you brewed it with 34/70 and told them it was a kolsch

side by side i could definatley tell but cold in a glass by itslef i dont think i would be able to tell if it was made with ale yeast other than kolsch.

i did get more pear white grape when i fermented at 64 then when i did it at 59. i think that could give it away if it was fermented on the warm side .

 

[rtstrider]

Finally had my first real imported Kolsch a few weeks ago. It was Gaffel and I think 2565 would definitely hit the ballpark of that strain. Of course their beer was way cleaner than I've ever been able to get 2565. Hoping to find Fruh this evening to give it a go and see how it compares to WLP029. In the meantime I'm spinning up some proprietary yeast from the bank that's supposedly either a Kolsch or Altbier strain. I think it's more in the ballpark of 1007 but the history on the strain is mum so it is what it is lol Was going to do some pressurized fermentation tests and go on a tear of 2-3 repitches to see how the strain responds in a pressure environment.

 

[mac_1103]

or lager grain and hops with an ordinary ale yeast

Isn't that a cream ale?

 

[balrog]

i keep expecting to get a bigger cake with every repitch but i am always coming up with two 8 oz jars?

Yeast propogate until they have a certain # cells per degree plato, so if you make the same beer (size batch and relatively same OG) you'll always be getting about the same biomass of yeast. Throw in a billion cells or 4 billion they still go to about 5 billion and don't make more as they "know" they have the right amount adn get to work on the sugars.

I’ve been running Giga021 for the last 8 years maybe. I love 021 and will keep going until I lose it somehow.

Giga021 was the perfect ester, light white wine, Kolsch-y profile, yeast.
I miss it so.
Mine finally died after about 2 years of repitching.

Sigh.

 

[beersk]

Did someone mention this one somewhere in this thread? https://www.morebeer.com/products/c...pzn3wk3PLT28sIQ_pxdyKtWwF6c_SKvhoCtSQQAvD_BwE

Wonder what this is a repackage of? Or is Cellar Science an independent yeast producer?

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Wonder what this is a repackage of? Or is Cellar Science an independent yeast producer?

Likely this yeast from AEB: https://www.aeb-group.com/us/fermoale-german-k-15501

Edit: which is likely the same as the Apex branded Kolsch. With a quick search, I also don't see this one in packs other than 500g (like the Cellar Science one as well). https://www.hopcraftsupply.com/products/apex-cultures-kolsch-yeast-500g-brick

 

[fluketamer]

Isn't that a cream ale?

yes it is

Yeast propogate until they have a certain # cells per degree plato, so if you make the same beer (size batch and relatively same OG) you'll always be getting about the same biomass of yeast. Throw in a billion cells or 4 billion they still go to about 5 billion and don't make more as they "know" they have the right amount adn get to work on the sugars.



Giga021 was the perfect ester, light white wine, Kolsch-y profile, yeast.
I miss it so.
Mine finally died after about 2 years of repitching.

Sigh.

thanks that makes a lot of sense

Did someone mention this one somewhere in this thread? https://www.morebeer.com/products/c...pzn3wk3PLT28sIQ_pxdyKtWwF6c_SKvhoCtSQQAvD_BwE

Wonder what this is a repackage of? Or is Cellar Science an independent yeast producer?

yeah i have had my eye on that one and i like cellar science so much i was planning on getting it. but i havent seen it in small packs just the brick.