Adding extract at end of boil?

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rcd

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Lately I've seen a few recipes that share the philosophy of adding all of your LME/DME at the END of the boil (thus, not boiling the extract). I guess the rationale is avoiding carmelization, scorching, etc... and since it's really already been boiled or whatever...

what do you lose by doing it this way? isn't there some interaction required between the extract and hops or something?
 
Hops utilization is actually higher when there is less extract in the wort, or so I have read. Lower gravity = higher utilization. I would still want to boil the extract for at least ten or fifteen minutes, just to ensure sanitation, but I'm planning on doing a late addition with my brew tomorrow. Lower caramalization is the big reason, but I also like me some hops!
 
Just so I'm clear...You all boil the grains and your hops for the hour or so, THEN add the malt (dry or liquid) at the end of the boil? Every time I go the other route, like the directions say, the wort ends up darker than I'd hoped. This will perhaps cure this?
Man, I HATE directions!
 
The one thing I'm wondering is... say you put half in at the start, and the other half at knockout (okay, say 10 minutes, to pasteurize it). Is the fermentability of either half different? or is the only difference carmelization?
 
Radarbrew said:
Just so I'm clear...You all boil the grains and your hops for the hour or so, THEN add the malt (dry or liquid) at the end of the boil? Every time I go the other route, like the directions say, the wort ends up darker than I'd hoped. This will perhaps cure this? Man, I HATE directions!
IMO, if you use LME then your brew is already darker than you want/expect it before you even start brewing...:(

I boil 1 lb Extra Light DME for 45 mins (and other ingredients like bittering hop, etc) then add all the other malts and boil for 15. The brews are definitely lighter in color.:D
 
homebrewer_99 said:
IMO, if you use LME then your brew is already darker than you want/expect it before you even start brewing...:(

I boil 1 lb Extra Light DME for 45 mins (and other ingredients like bittering hop, etc) then add all the other malts and boil for 15. The brews are definitely lighter in color.:D

you mean... you boil the specialty grains for the last 15 min instead of steeping at the start?
 
When I was extract brewing, I steeped my specialty grains, added 1 lb of LME and added the rest at flameout.

When I was doing partial mash, I steeped my specialty grains and my base malts then added the LME at flameout.
 
Radarbrew said:
Just so I'm clear...You all boil the grains and your hops for the hour or so,

Off topic a little, but this bears mention since it pretty important. Don't boil any of the grains...

If you are using steeping grains, you steep in a cheesecloth or fine mesh bag for 15 minutes or more up to a maximum temperature of 160 degrees, then remove the grain bag before starting your boil.

If you are mashing, there are several common techniques, but you will never boil the grains in any of them. You steep the grains in hot water of various temps and sparge with hotter water, but in no case is the temperature greater than 170*F, and for mashing is generally in the 150 to 155 range. This extracts the sugar water that was converted from the starches in the grains. It's this wort that you boil, not the grains.
 
Here is a response I got from John Palmer when I asked him about adding at knockout....

john palmer said:
the idea is that you avoid a prolonged high gravity boil, which improves your hop utilizaiton and decreases maillard reactions that lead to wort darkening and extract twang off-flavors.
You don't necessarily have to turn the burner off and not boil the extract (you can boil it a short time if you want to), the idea is that merely heating it to pasteurization temperatures for a couple minutes is sufficient to sanitize the extract before cooling and pitching. I said 10 minutes in the book (p. 213), which is conservative to the point of being excessive. Earlier in Chapter 7, p. 82, I say at 5 minutes before the end of the boil.
So, in conlcusion, anytime at the end of the boil, for a couple minutes is sufficient. I should have been more clear in the book. Oh well, next time.

As an example, Milk is pastuerized by heating to 160F for at least 15 seconds.
Not pasteurizing the extract will not hurt you, but the beer fermentation could suffer from beer-spoilage bacteria or wild yeasts, which are probably not desired.
 
rcd said:
The one thing I'm wondering is... say you put half in at the start, and the other half at knockout (okay, say 10 minutes, to pasteurize it). Is the fermentability of either half different? or is the only difference carmelization?

Carmelization changes color and taste. I haven't noticed any difference in fermentability. But the procedure I learned and still employ is boil the DME (if no DME then half of the LME) then toss in the LME at the last 15 minutes of the boil.

rcd said:
you mean... you boil the specialty grains for the last 15 min instead of steeping at the start?

The sweet wort (not the grain) gets boiled the full 60 minutes. DME gets boiled the full 60 minutes. LME only needs to be boiled 15 minutes unless there is no sweet wort or DME for the beginning of the boil.

Hope that helps,
Wild
 
beer4breakfast said:
Off topic a little, but this bears mention since it pretty important. Don't boil any of the grains...
.
Yeah, I made a grammatical error. I didn't mean boil the grains, but the product of them after steeping. (tea?) Apparently, everyone is a bit different on the boil. Although I'm willing to try DME, I have no idea (except for now) when to add it.
Can't you just FEEEEEEEL the knowledge in this site? Go on, Feel it....woah now, that's a bit too much...
:mug: :ban:
 
rcd said:
you mean... you boil the specialty grains for the last 15 min instead of steeping at the start?
No. If I use grains I steep them for 30 mins, strain out the grains, bring to a boil, remove from heat, add in 1 lb extra light DME, hops, gypsum, yeast nutrients, whatever...boil that for 45 mins then add the remaining malts. Boil for 15 mins and/or until you get a second hot break.:D

rdwj: Interesting read about pasteurizing the malts. The only reason I boil for the full 60 minutes is for bittering hops/utilization.
 
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