What makes or breaks a great barleywine?

So I have decided on a barleywine for the next brew and I have started doing some preliminary review of the online recipes and thinking about what I want to shoot for. Bigfoot, Third Coast Old Ale & Victory's Old Horizontal are some favorites so my preferences go in the 19c/American barleywine direction. Online recipes are all over the place from simple to kitchen sink style.

Citrusy American-style hops are in along with some caramel/crystal malts. Heavy roasted and dark grains out. What about sugars like jaggery and muscovado? I would like to get that toffee & deep brown sugar flavor mixed in for some additional complexity. Right now I am thinking about a rather simple recipe of pale malt with a little caramel 60, a touch of biscuit or aromatic & a small % of jaggery/muscovado. Thoughts on hopping and feedback?

For the hopping, I'd say if you're planning on aging it(and I hope you are) you almost can't go too high on the IBU's. I forget who came up with it, but you supposedly get good balance from the same IBU to OG ratio. So a 1.101 Barleywine = 101 IBU's. Seems right, but remember its maltier than most beers and you're aging it, so its going to fade over time. So I'd go even higher. My oldest barleywine is ending up a little sweeter/maltier than I would like, to me the ~90-100 IBU's were not enough in hindsight. Good luck.

Yes, this is going to be occupying a carboy for a good long time before hitting the bottle and the hopping rate is a good point. I tend to favor some pretty heavy handed hopping and want a little edge when it matures. The ratio mentioned makes for a good target, thanks for the tip. I have seen a few recipes that include dry hopping but it doesn't seem to make sense if you are going to age it for so long before consumption.

If anyone has brewed with jaggery or muscovado, what's a good percentage to get a bit of flavor in this kinda brew with out it being too much?

Still looking for some feedback on the jaggery and muscovado. I understand that Mosher describes Jaggery as "more mapely" and muscovado as "soft molasses." Based on those descriptions, I would want more of the muscovado infulences but if anyone has tips on %s from their experience, I would be interested in the feedback.

Never used either of those, but I love sucanat. I wouldn't use too much, though.

I don't have it in front of me right now, but Designing Great Beers has a really good section on Barleywines. If you don't have that book, GET IT. What I remember most is that for American b-wines, the malt bill was pretty simple. Lots of pale malt, then some crystal, etc. Hopping is pretty aggressive, and intensive dryhopping is more and more common.

If I remember tonight, I'll read up some more for ya.

Also, I've added star anise pods to both my barleywines, and I absolutely love it. It really complements that syrupy, malty, molassas-y flavor of barleywine quite well. I highly recommend it if you're feeling adventurous. Start off with maybe 2 star pods. It'll be very subtle that way.

Evan! said:

Never used either of those, but I love sucanat. I wouldn't use too much, though.

I don't have it in front of me right now, but Designing Great Beers has a really good section on Barleywines. If you don't have that book, GET IT. What I remember most is that for American b-wines, the malt bill was pretty simple. Lots of pale malt, then some crystal, etc. Hopping is pretty aggressive, and intensive dryhopping is more and more common.

If I remember tonight, I'll read up some more for ya.

Also, I've added star anise pods to both my barleywines, and I absolutely love it. It really complements that syrupy, malty, molassas-y flavor of barleywine quite well. I highly recommend it if you're feeling adventurous. Start off with maybe 2 star pods. It'll be very subtle that way.

Click to expand...

Sounds like a good suggestion..I have been thinking about picking up a new brewing related book so thar I go! Thanks!

Star anise...hmmm, another interesting item to ponder.

I think DGB recommended something like 1.1 BU:GU ratio but it's been a while since I read that chapter.

Here is the basic recipe I came out with based on reading several (including the Old Ruffian recipe in BYO that it wound up matching rather closely). It's going to be a smaller batch so I don't have to split boil.

Basic Barleywine
19-C American Barleywine

Size: 2.94 gal
Efficiency: 80.0%
Attenuation: 75.0%
Calories: 388.0 per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.115 (1.080 - 1.120)
Terminal Gravity: 1.029 (1.016 - 1.030)
Color: 18.9 (10.0 - 19.0)
Alcohol: 11.51% (8.0% - 12.0%)
Bitterness: 120.22 (50.0 - 120.0)

Ingredients:
10 lbs Pale Ale Malt
8 oz Caramel Malt 60L
4 oz Victory® Malt
3 oz Wheat Flakes
.75 lbs Muscovado
1 oz Magnum (14.5%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
.5 oz Amarillo (8.5%) - added during boil, boiled 30 min
.5 oz Amarillo (8.5%) - added during boil, boiled 5 min
.5 tsp Irish Moss - added during boil, boiled 0.0 min
2 ea Fermentis US-05 Safale US-05

Results generated by BeerTools Pro 1.0.28

brewt00l said:

Here is the basic recipe I came out with based on reading several (including the Old Ruffian recipe in BYO that it wound up matching rather closely). It's going to be a smaller batch so I don't have to split boil.

Basic Barleywine
19-C American Barleywine

Size: 2.94 gal
Efficiency: 80.0%
Attenuation: 75.0%
Calories: 388.0 per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.115 (1.080 - 1.120)
Terminal Gravity: 1.029 (1.016 - 1.030)
Color: 18.9 (10.0 - 19.0)
Alcohol: 11.51% (8.0% - 12.0%)
Bitterness: 120.22 (50.0 - 120.0)

Ingredients:
10 lbs Pale Ale Malt
8 oz Caramel Malt 60L
4 oz Victory® Malt
3 oz Wheat Flakes
.75 lbs Muscovado
1 oz Magnum (14.5%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
.5 oz Amarillo (8.5%) - added during boil, boiled 30 min
.5 oz Amarillo (8.5%) - added during boil, boiled 5 min
.5 tsp Irish Moss - added during boil, boiled 0.0 min
2 ea Fermentis US-05 Safale US-05

Results generated by BeerTools Pro 1.0.28

Click to expand...

Looks tasty! I like the wheat flakes, will have to remember that.

Update:

Brewed In October '07
Conditioned in a secondary and teritary until bottled w/ fresh nottingham April '08

Sampled over the past two weeks and it is something else...11% is completely hidden (and I mean completely..not a hint of alcohol) behind a nice mellow flavor profile w/ a smooth medium body.

Very nice! I may play around with this recipe.

You know, I will prb do a variation of this recipe again but I might age it on some vanilla or something along those lines. I would be curious to try it with using plain table sugar over the muscovado and see what difference there is in the end profile. The sugar plays an important part in keeping the body from being to thick and heavy.

Hey how's the Amarillo taste in there? I didn't even notice that's what you used for flavor hopping until just now. I've got a bunch of Amarillo, it could work quite well for the 09 Barleywine.

The amarillo doesn't really stick out enough to be noticeable from overall flavor on the two samples I have had so far....I'm prb not going to open another 'till sometime in September.