bleach-to rinse or not to rinse

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

jerry garcia

New Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
What are peoples opinions on using bleach to sanitize, air dry versus rinsing with sink water.
 
When I used bleach I always rinsed because I hated risking having any of that bleach taste carry over to my beer. I figure if I considered my tap water good enough to top off the fermenter after a partial boil, then using it to rinse after sanitizing couldn't be too bad either.

With that said, let me be the first (edit: errr... second) to recommend using a better sanitizer, such as starsan which is absolutely amazing, and I'd say worth every penny for the convenience and time savings.
 
Are you asking if you should rinse bleach or if it better to rinse and air-dry. Like^^^
said..........ALWAYS rinse bleach. Then rinse. Then rinse. Then rinse. Then buy Starsan.
 
jerry garcia said:
What are peoples opinions on using bleach to sanitize, air dry versus rinsing with sink water.

Bleach decomposes into salt and HTH. Neither is good for flavor...
 
Bleach is an excellent cleaner and sanitiser, personally I soak everything in a 5% bleach solution for 20-30 mins at a rate of approx 2 1/2 cups per 3 US gals to clean it after use. (if I have done the metric imperial conversion correctly)

(actually I use antiformin s, the stuff the major breweries use although it is very similar to bleach except is contains more caustic)

Once its clean, rinse thoroughly, allow to dry and store, then when once you need to use it, give everything a quick spray with iodophor or star san and 30 seconds later it's ready to go.

This is basically what the commercial breweries do although they will more than likely use peracetic acid as the no rinse sanitiser of choice.

If you do sanitize with bleach use the minimum recommended dilution which I believe Palmer recommends as 1 tsp per gallon and rinse thoroughly. If your tap water is treated by the water company (ie not from a well in the ground) it is perfectly ok to rinse with it.

If you acidify your bleach solution you can use a much lower dosage of bleach and there is no need to rinse (just air dry), if you get the acidification process wrong though it could potentially be hazardous, it's quite simple and is described by Charley Talley of Five Star Chemicals on one of the Brewing Network pod casts. It's not a new concept though and has been used in the food and beverage industry for years. There is a handy PDF document about it here... http://osuextra.okstate.edu/pdfs/FAPC-116web.pdf
 
ScubaSteve said:
Why put Iodophor above Star-San?

I like it better since it's non foaming and I've had more successfull brews when I use Iodaphor. It's a preference, that's all. Plus, Iodaphor is so much cheaper.
 
bucket brewer's prefer star-san since it cannot stain anything. that's really the only downside I see to star-san.

star-san residue won't give off flavors to beer, but I understand iodiphor can. but as long as you're mixing to the right concentration, it should be a moot point.
 
Are you asking if you should rinse bleach or if it better to rinse and air-dry. Like^^^
said..........ALWAYS rinse bleach. Then rinse. Then rinse. Then rinse. Then buy Starsan.

Where's your empirical data to back up your claim? A great no-rinse sanitising solution can be made up using bleach. 1 floz of bleach mixed with 5 US gallons of water, and then acidified with 1 fl oz of vinegar (it's important to not combine concentrated bleach with vinegar) makes a no rinse sanitiser. The contact time for this is the same as Star San, and it's much more cost effective. When interviewed on a home brewing podcast, the inventor of Star San recommended the above sanitiser; he also explicitly said not to rinse it, as you can't rely on your tap water.
 
this is one big bump on the post! The point of rinsing bleach is to get rid of the chlorine which will hurt the yeast AND steel (chlorine reacts with the oxidized layer on stainless steel.. which is another reason not to use bleach). But starsan doesn't kill yeast and in fact breaks down into yeast nutrient so it doesn't need to be rinsed at all.
 
Bleach has it's place for cleaning up infections or old, moldy bottles, but I personally wouldn't use it as a "no-rinse" sanitizer. I realize Charlie Talley mentioned his "no-rinse" acidified bleach solution, but I don't trust not rinsing. There are just too many accounts of noticeable chlorophenol development in finished products for me to not rinse.

I do not, however, understand the strong hatred and disapproval so many homebrewers have for the use of bleach. It seems that problems associated with bleach occur because the individual did not rinse enough and used a highly concentrated solution. I, for one, have used bleach on a few occasions for cleaning an infection that a PBW cleaning and Star San soak was unable to kill. I think there are several other people who can attest to having the same success.

Sometimes, a nuclear blast is the only solution. In every other case, I prefer Star San.
 
I've used bleach exclusively and I've never had any problems with the so-called band-aid flavor/aromas. I DO rinse.

Essentially, I fill what I want to sanitize with the proper ratio of bleach:water, soak for about 10 minutes, then drain 90%, refill 1/4-way with water, and dump. At that point I consider it ready to use.

MC
 
Bleach has it's place for cleaning up infections or old, moldy bottles, but I personally wouldn't use it as a "no-rinse" sanitizer. I realize Charlie Talley mentioned his "no-rinse" acidified bleach solution, but I don't trust not rinsing. There are just too many accounts of noticeable chlorophenol development in finished products for me to not rinse.
.

I use Charlie's no rinse sanitiser with great effect and with no off flavours in my beer. As it only requires a 30 second contact time, I have my beer bottled in around 40 minutes. The amount of bleach used just isn't enough to cause a noticeable chlorophenol taste in the beer.

The application of bleach as a sanitiser goes much further than you have written about in your post. Have you written this after personal experience? Or is it based on some of the regurgitated information on HBT? I really wouldn't believe all the hearsay you read on this forum. It's nothing but scare tactics and propaganda. If Charlie Talley says it is good enough, then that's good enough for me. If some random person writes something on a home brewing forum, I question the validity and the source.
 
I've used bleach exclusively and I've never had any problems with the so-called band-aid flavor/aromas. I DO rinse.

Essentially, I fill what I want to sanitize with the proper ratio of bleach:water, soak for about 10 minutes, then drain 90%, refill 1/4-way with water, and dump. At that point I consider it ready to use.

MC

What do you consider the correct ratio of bleach to water? The information that's provided on the pack? Use an acidified bleach solution with only 28 mls of bleach in 19 litres of water (use the same amount of vinegar to acidify) and this is a real killer. The bleach doesn't become effective as a sanitiser until the pH drops to about 5. This is no rinse, and it's recommended you don't rinse. You really can't trust the water that comes out of your tap. If you're bleaching and then rinsing, you're pretty much negating the effect of the bleach.
 
What do you consider the correct ratio of bleach to water?

From Clorox's web page:

Clorox Bleach to water ratio for cleaning hard, nonporous food contact surface sanitizing (refrigerators, freezers, plastic cutting boards, stainless cutlery, dishes, glassware, countertops, pots and pans, stainless utensils):

Use 1 tablespoon of Clorox® Regular-Bleach per gallon of water. Wash, wipe or rinse items with detergent and water then apply sanitizing solution. Let stand 2 minutes. Air dry. Kills the following:

Staphylococcus aureus (Staph.)

Escherichia coli 0157:H7 (E. coli)

For hard, nonporous surface disinfection:

Use ¾ cup Clorox Bleach in one gallon of water/10 minute contact time, to kill the following:

Feline parvovirus

Canine parvovirus

Use 1¾ cup Clorox Bleach in one gallon of water/5 minute contact time, to kill the following:

Mycobacterium bovis (Tuberculosis)

MC
 
:rolleyes:
What do you consider the correct ratio of bleach to water? The information that's provided on the pack? Use an acidified bleach solution with only 28 mls of bleach in 19 litres of water (use the same amount of vinegar to acidify) and this is a real killer. The bleach doesn't become effective as a sanitiser until the pH drops to about 5. This is no rinse, and it's recommended you don't rinse. You really can't trust the water that comes out of your tap. If you're bleaching and then rinsing, you're pretty much negating the effect of the bleach.

I love how every time one of these bleach threads is started, someone has to come along defending the honor of bleach while preaching their beliefs and practices.

It seems pretty evident that Darth and Misplaced are simply explaining their current practice and their opinions on the use of bleach. They both feel more comfortable rinsing, end of story. Why does everyone have to have your opinion? They want to rinse, let them rinse. It works for both of them, as each one has explicitly outlined in their posts. If they rinse and it works, why should they change their methods just because you do something different? You also speak of questioning the validity of posts on this forum, yet here you are posting yourself...



I have also used bleach to clean infections and, like the aforementioned, rinsed well with great success. A nice overnight diluted bleach soak at the 1 - 2 tbsp/1 gal. water ratio works well for cleaning a persistent infection. Just remember to rinse afterwards, then sanitize as normal.




I sense another speech coming on...
 
You really can't trust the water that comes out of your tap. If you're bleaching and then rinsing, you're pretty much negating the effect of the bleach.

Darn. I'll have to go and return the 4 ribbons that I got in homebrew competitions over the last year because my beers were infected. :D

I've just had an idea: I'm going to take some sterile wort (pressure cooked) and add a cup of water straight out of the tap and see how long it takes for anything to grow inside the covered jar.

As an FYI, the girl I was recently dating was a chemical process engineer for a pharmaceutical company. They regularly use a bleach solution to kill any bugs, and that's on their stainless steel, no less. [Ok, it's not 304 stainless, it's much more polished].

M_C
 
:rolleyes:

I love how every time one of these bleach threads is started, someone has to come along defending the honor of bleach while preaching their beliefs and practices.

It seems pretty evident that Darth and Misplaced are simply explaining their current practice and their opinions on the use of bleach. They both feel more comfortable rinsing, end of story. Why does everyone have to have your opinion? They want to rinse, let them rinse. It works for both of them, as each one has explicitly outlined in their posts. If they rinse and it works, why should they change their methods just because you do something different? You also speak of questioning the validity of posts on this forum, yet here you are posting yourself...



I have also used bleach to clean infections and, like the aforementioned, rinsed well with great success (note what I mentioned about rinsing). A nice overnight diluted bleach soak at the 1 - 2 tbsp/1 gal. water ratio works well for cleaning a persistent infection. Just remember to rinse afterwards (ever thought about evaluating your method to prevent infections?), then sanitize as normal.




I sense another speech coming on...

I'm just passing on my experiences and knowledge to the forum. If people want to use it (and in this instance save themselves time and money) then they can; essentially, you've just done the same thing as me, but in your opinion, I'm to be criticised. You really are a silly and aggressive man if this post is a fair representation of your character.

I noticed that you mentioned cleaning up infections too. Do you not think this undermines your argument? I've never had an infection using my method.

I'm sorry my friend, this has just been too easy. Try proof reading your next post for any logic incongruities.

This may have been a speech if it was communicated orally. Don't use 'big' words if you don't know what they mean.
 
1)Darn. I'll have to go and return the 4 ribbons that I got in homebrew competitions over the last year because my beers were infected. :D

2) I've just had an idea: I'm going to take some sterile wort (pressure cooked) and add a cup of water straight out of the tap and see how long it takes for anything to grow inside the covered jar.

3) As an FYI, the girl I was recently dating was a chemical process engineer for a pharmaceutical company. They regularly use a bleach solution to kill any bugs, and that's on their stainless steel, no less. [Ok, it's not 304 stainless, it's much more polished].

M_C

1) Cherish your ribbons, just as you are, but don't think that this makes your opinion more valid than anyone else's on this forum.

2) That may be fine for your water. But I'm giving general advice to people with a range of different water profiles. For example, in the North of Norway, in a place called Alta, the water is unchlorinated; you'd have a hard time home brewing using your method in this area of the world.

3) You didn't mention that this girl you were dating has a vast experience in home brewing sanitisation, which the source of my information - Charlie Talley, inventor of Star San - does. I'm really not the type of guy to get impressed by big scientific words and titles. And if that's what you talked about on your dates guy, sounds like you had a lot of fun.
 
So the inventor or Star san recommends using star san, and not everyday bleach. I wonder where he got his research?
 
So the inventor or Star san recommends using star san, and not everyday bleach. I wonder where he got his research?

If you're referring to my post, that isn't what I wrote whatsoever. During an interview on a home brewing podcast, in which the topic was sanitisation, the inventor of Star San very gracefully recommended the aforementioned acidified bleach solution. Of course, he went on to advocate the use of Star San and its benefits, but he primarily talked about the application of bleach for home brewing sanitisation.

And would you care to elaborate on the highlighted comment?
 
It is like clorox recommending on television a cup to a gallon for sanitation when a capful is more than enough. They want you to use more to buy more.
 
It is like clorox recommending on television a cup to a gallon for sanitation when a capful is more than enough. They want you to use more to buy more.

I agree with what you're saying, but the inventor of Star San actually recommends a very mild bleach and acid solution as a sanitiser.
 
Back
Top