Double IPA Trillium Vicinity Clone

[grassfeeder]

If I run across a "fix" for the bottling issue, I will be sure to point it out. Best of luck...

I've had luck bottling from the tap (legged beer) - I purge the bottle with C02 first and cap it immediately. Never done an age test but have had them last a month at least this way. I bottled a batch for a friend this way and it worked out.

 

[thehaze]

@thehaze - I never bottled other than from my keg taps on rare occasion so cannot offer much guidance in that area. As far as oxidation goes, I highly recommend that you consider building a closed fermentation system and keg. I have done this and my IPAs are SOOOOOO much better and last so much longer! I am drinking a month old IPA as I type and it has no oxidation and remains cloudy and full of hop flavor and aroma. Took a long time to get here, but the nail in the coffin was when I started fermenting under pressure and transferring to a water purged serving keg. I dry hop on day 3-4 of fermentation, which means active fermentation is ongoing and any O2 introduced is consumed by the yeasts as they are still quite active.

S04 and WLP007 are the same yeast and I think you will LOVE it! I use it and 1318 for all my IPAs and they both are fantastic. I have used Conan but never got the flavor profile I was looking for. Might be because it was before I got better at brewing IPAs, so I will give it another go sometime. Still have a bunch in the fridge I can grow up.

If I run across a "fix" for the bottling issue, I will be sure to point it out. Best of luck...

Thanks for the reply.

I have a few question regarding the hops choices and ratios in this beer or similar attempts.

I can see you prefer a Galaxy dominant one.

Would a 1:1:1 / Columbus:Citra:Galaxy be worse or less of a fruit/juicy bomb?

I just recently started using Columbus a bit more and it seems like a very versatile hop. Of course Citra and Galaxy are second to none, but would a equally split ratio work as well?

Or is it one of those things we yet have to try out?

 

[stonebrewer]

@thehaze - I think you try it and see! There are a lot of brewers who prefer to use non 1:1 ratios of hops, as some will dominate the profile and drown out their brother and sister hops. I am a big fan of Galaxy and have a lot on hand for this and other similar IPAs I brew. I get more Galaxy out of the real thing, so I chose to emphasize it. That said, Trillium uses the same basic recipe for all their IPAs and changes either the hops or the base malt, or adds an adjunct like grape must. Therefore, I think you can use most any high alpha hop combination and get a great beer...

Cheers!

 

[grassfeeder]

yep. I usually use a 1:1:1 OR A 2:1:1 depending on the hop. I just made a take of Fort Point and added .25# of lactose and did all Galaxy Hops from the Whirlpool on and al Columbus prior to.

 

[thehaze]

One more question:

Would 300 gr ( 10 oz ) of hops be enough for dry hopping a 5 gallons, 8% ABV DIPA?

I am actually thinking this might not be enough, and would like to bump it up to 14 oz, but only if 10 oz is really not enough.

 

[thehaze]

I have not yet brewed this one, but did you ( stonebrewer ) get to brew this again, using more wheat?

How did it turn out?

 

[thehaze]

Would there be a negative impact on the beer, if I were to choose to drop the CaraPils and the low Lovibond crystal malt?

Say, just use Pilsner, Flaked Wheat and some Flaked oats. That's it.

 

[grassfeeder]

One more question:

Would 300 gr ( 10 oz ) of hops be enough for dry hopping a 5 gallons, 8% ABV DIPA?

I am actually thinking this might not be enough, and would like to bump it up to 14 oz, but only if 10 oz is really not enough.

yes, I believe it to be enough.

 

[stonebrewer]

Sorry for the lack of replies...was out of country for a while!

10 Oz is enough. I would not discourage you from using more, but this is a hoppy beer with 10 ounces. I have just kicked the keg of a beer (in RECORD TIME!) where I used cryo hops in the dry hop. WOW! It was my take on Surly Abrasive and I thought it was better than the real thing! So the only thing I would tweak right now with this recipe is to make the Citra cryo hops instead of regular pellets.

You can change the grain bill and not majorly affect this beer. I used what Trillium uses just to get close to what they make, but I just made a beer with just 2 row and golden naked oats and it was fantastic, so simplifying the malt bill will not hurt, IMHO.

 

[degivens]

So it wasn't off gassing. It was still full of sugar (honey, actually)! And I, like a rookie brewer, decided to rush and not take a gravity reading. I poured a glass of sugar beer and decided to pull it out of the kegerator, hook a spunding valve up, put it in my temperature chamber, and flew off to Hawaii for a few weeks. Got back last week, just now getting "normal" and popped it back in the kegerator. First pour was all yeast (last night). Tonight, after running to IKEA to satisfy family needs, I came home, sat down, and poured myself a beer...then another...then another. WOW! This is so damned good! It could use some more dry hops (I lost track and may not have done all the dry hopping I planned!!), but I would put this up against Trillium's Artaic (now cutting tiles) any day. Great nose, flavor is spot on, and hoppy as anything I would buy in VT or MA! Lovin' these NE homebrewed IPA's everyone!

How much honey did you use?

 

[stonebrewer]

2 lbs.

 

[Oldskewl]

I have been wanting to brew this for while as I am a big fan of Trillium beers. For the most part I stuck to the recipe. I lowered the CTZ bittering addition to 1/4 oz and the 10 min to 3/4 oz. I also used 1:1:1 Nelson|CTZ|Galaxy for the whirlpool and 3:1:3 Nelson|CTZ|Galaxy for the Dryhop. At 2 weeks in the keg it looks the part of a nice Hazy IPA and has a nice aroma. But it has an astringency to it that stays on the tongue. I think it may be from the CTZ hops as I had a similar experience when I used it as the bittering hop for a Hop Hands clone. Has anyone else experienced this?

 

[Oldskewl]

Sharing a pic. At almost 4 weeks in keg it still looks beautiful. Astringency has calmed down but it still lingers on the back of tongue.

 

[paarman]

Thinking about brewing this up in a month or so... Only question I have is do you add the corn sugar at 10 mins as well? I see it's grouped with the other ingredients to be added to the boil at 10 mins, but just thought I would ask, thanks!

 

[paarman]

Anyone still following this? Brewing this up this weekend, wondering on the reply to my previous question.

Also, at what point do you add the phosphoric acid? I generally add all my water additions to the water, then heat it up-do I add it before or after heating or does it not matter?

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I usually add my acid along with my salts before lighting the burner but I've forgotten a couple times and remembered while my water was heating up to strike temp and added it then. I don't think it matters. It'll drop the alkalinity whether it goes in cold or hot.

To your previous question most people add the sugar near the end since it doesn't need to be boiled for an hour. I don't really think that matters much either though when it goes in. It's not like the sugar will boil away. There have been a few times I've meant to add sugar near the end and completely forgotten, so don't be careless like me.

 

[paarman]

Thanks for both answers!

 

[isomerization]

I have been wanting to brew this for while as I am a big fan of Trillium beers. For the most part I stuck to the recipe. I lowered the CTZ bittering addition to 1/4 oz and the 10 min to 3/4 oz. I also used 1:1:1 Nelson|CTZ|Galaxy for the whirlpool and 3:1:3 Nelson|CTZ|Galaxy for the Dryhop. At 2 weeks in the keg it looks the part of a nice Hazy IPA and has a nice aroma. But it has an astringency to it that stays on the tongue. I think it may be from the CTZ hops as I had a similar experience when I used it as the bittering hop for a Hop Hands clone. Has anyone else experienced this?

Late response, but Southern Hemisphere hops are notorious for hop burn/astringency from high(er) levels of polyphenols. At least this is what I’ve read.

 

[Oldskewl]

My understanding is that you want the add the acid to the water for the mash to help with conversion. Mash water should be in the 5.2-5.6 range. Personally I use acid malt so it is part of the grains being mashed.

Sugar should be added in the last 10-15 minutes of the boil. You are only mixing it into the wort. You do not want it to lay on the bottom of the kettle and scorch. Stir, stir, stir.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

My understanding is that you want the add the acid to the water for the mash to help with conversion. Mash water should be in the 5.2-5.6 range. Personally I use acid malt so it is part of the grains being mashed.

Sugar should be added in the last 10-15 minutes of the boil. You are only mixing it into the wort. You do not want it to lay on the bottom of the kettle and scorch. Stir, stir, stir.

You definitely add the acid into the mash to drop ph. Unless I misunderstood his question, he was asking whether it mattered if you added it to the cold water or after you began heating the water to strike temp before mashing in. That doesn't matter.

 

[paarman]

Yes, it was a question of when to add it to the mash water was all.

I went to my 2 LHBS today, neither of them had phosphoric acid, unfortunately. I have some citric acid on hand, can that be a valid substitute? I have read that it can impart some off-flavors, so most preferable is phosphoric. If not, I will just skip it altogether. Bru'n water is saying I should land around 5.38 or so for pH, and to be honest, I never check the pH of my mashes and I don't lose sleep over it. I just like to be "by the book" at times, so wanted to try it out to see if I want to add it into my future processes or not.

TIA

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Did they have lactic acid? That's what I use. I believe the taste threshold for lactic is lower than phosphoric but still pretty high, so you shouldn't have off-flavors with it unless your water is super high in alkalinity and you have to use a ton(in which case you should be cutting it with RO or distilled). I have no experience using citric acid to lower ph.

 

[zebradeltaone]

removing the irish moss will absolutely help. once i started killing that practice my beers never clear now. Also, I use straight white wheat and not flaked wheat. Also, started using white labs 007 as well.

I personally enjoy using malted oats

 

[paarman]

Did they have lactic acid? That's what I use. I believe the taste threshold for lactic is lower than phosphoric but still pretty high, so you shouldn't have off-flavors with it unless your water is super high in alkalinity and you have to use a ton(in which case you should be cutting it with RO or distilled). I have no experience using citric acid to lower ph.

No lactic either... The two around here I don't feel like are very high in foot traffic so stock can go low or empty for weeks.

I ended up not using either. I use distilled water and add my agents from there. Just going with the flow here like normal and ignoring the pH. I probably won't know the difference, but will have to try it in a future brew.

Everything went fine on brew day.. Efficiency wasn't as high as I expected, OG was 1.064. Mash lost a few degrees, I need to tighten up on that-use a heavier blanket. I'm not sure what the grain crush is, but I'm going to double mill next time I order. I also fly sparge and generally get good results, but might look at a new method. Seems like more often than not my OG comes in lower than I'd like it to.

The worst thing that happened was my rubber stopper pushed into my brew bucket when I was trying to get the blow off tube in at the end... Luckily I had a backup, but lets hope that doesn't kill the batch haha.

 

[jpLV]

I took this recipe and tweaked it to be more like Pier. I used the notes on the website for what hops to use and added the wheat to about 30% the mash bill. Also added some flaked wheat. This will be the first time I've done a Columbus only hop schedule for boil\whirlpool and then DH the other hops. I'll let you guys know how it turns out!

 

[jpLV]

Really happy how this turned out. I ended up dry hopping with Vic Secret, Citra and Galaxy hops for 5 days. I was trying to use up some old hops I had in the freezer so not exactly Pier but its very tasty. This recipe seems pretty flexible so I cant wait to tweak it again.

 

[jpLV]

For anyone interested this is what I ended up doing. I substituted Vic Secret for Galaxy mainly because thats what I had on hand. If I brewed again I was stick to just Citra and Galaxy dry hop.

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: Wyeast 1318 London Ale III
Yeast Starter: 2 Liter
Batch Size (Gallons): 5.5
Original Gravity: 1.065
Final Gravity: 1.010
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
IBU: 60
Color: 4.5 SRM
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 14 days at 68

Mash
7 lbs 12 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) 57.4 %
4 lbs Wheat - White Malt (Briess) (2.3 SRM) 29.6 %
1 lbs Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) 7.4 %
12 oz Carapils (Briess) (1.5 SRM) 5.6 %

Mash at 152 for 60 minutes

Hops
0.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [16.60 %] - Boil 60.0 min 27.9 IBUs
1.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [16.60 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30.0 min 0.0 IBUs

Dry Hops
4.00 oz Vic Secret [15.50 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days 0.0 IBUs
3.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Galaxy[14.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days 0.0 IBUs