Water High in Sodium/Sulfate and Too Hard?

[Bobo1898]

I've brewed with fairly hard water over the years with moderate levels of sodium and sulfate. I just moved to a new area and the water appears to be much harder to me, with high levels of sodium (74ppm) and sulfate (174ppm, converted)---see the attached image.

In part this may work well with darker beers (minus the high sulfate) but wondering how to approach beers that lean towards yellow. In the past, with high hardness and bicarbonate, I've always diluted 50/50 with the previous water I've brewed with if I was making something like an IPA, saison or kolsch, but it appears that I may have to dilute more with this water.

Am I just better off building from distilled when brewing lighter beers? If so, is there anything I need to take into account beyond just hitting the targeted Ca, Mg, Na, SO4 and Cl?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I would probably toss 140 mL of 10% Phosphoric Acid into each 10 gallons of this water and then brew with it as is for at least a single batch just to see if the result is satisfactory.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

If you have any 85% Phosphoric Acid, the equivalent acid addition would be ~10.3 mL for each 10 gallons.

 

[Bobo1898]

Are you suggesting the acid for pH adjustment? Any concern for taste with the high sodium/sulfate? I understood with both of them, together, at high levels, it can be very "minerally."

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

The acid I've suggested is only enough to treat the Alkalinity of the water. It is not factoring in any additional acidity which might (or might not) be required for mash pH adjustment.

I'm not shocked by your mineralization. My well water has up to 3 times your mineralization, and I've brewed satisfactorily with it when using 2/3 RO and 1/3 well, plus acidifying. So your water straight up would be nigh on equivalent to mine when cut as described. I'll admit though that my Sodium ion is not as high as yours. But peer reviewed brewing literature from yore (meaning before the onset of the era of homebrewing which soon after spurred both a rash of sometimes dubious brewing books plus the entire microbrewing industry) indicates that back then 50-100 ppm Sodium ion was often considered a plus.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

One batch to try it and see how it turns out is not likely to bring about the end of the world. But for a lighter colored beer (at least, if not also for mid to dark as well) you will seriously need to knock down that Alkalinity. The Alkalinity is far more of a problem issue than your other mineral levels.

Only the very darkest and most robust brews (meaning here more robust and chocked full of dark Caramel and Chocolate malts than more common dark brews) might bring on board sufficient acid nature of their own to counter your Alkalinity (and this goes double or more for if you brew without sparging).

If you sparge, that waters alkalinity must be addressed via acid regardless of the targeted brews color or robustness level.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Per Ward Labs my well waters Alkalinity is 377 ppm and my bicarb is 458 ppm but my well waters pH is a highly neutral 7.7. Your well waters Alkalinity is much lower at 226 ppm and your waters pH is a bit higher at 8.3. This shows that there is little correlation between a waters pH and its Alkalinity. Water pH is (for the most part) highly irrelevant to any brewing concern, whereas Alkalinity is of highly relevant concern.

 

[Bobby_M]

It looks like the water is ideal for an American Stout and that's about it.

174 Sulfate to 66 Chloride will accentuate hop bitterness.

I'd be putting in a $100 RO system immediately.

 

[dmtaylor]

I would plan on diluting most beers 50/50 with distilled or RO. Does it really matter? Not sure.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Only one way to find out. Brew the exact same Pils (or thereabouts) type recipe 3 times.

1) Well Water straight up sans for alkalinity adjustment plus mash pH adjustment
2) 50/50 RO and Well with alkalinity adjustment plus mash pH adjustment
3) Straight RO with added minerals and mash pH adjustment

Then get in touch with the Brulosophy gang for some quadrangle testing.

 

[dmtaylor]

Only one way to find out. Brew the exact same Pils (or thereabouts) type recipe 3 times.

1) Well Water straight up sans for alkalinity adjustment plus mash pH adjustment
2) 50/50 RO and Well with alkalinity adjustment plus mash pH adjustment
3) Straight RO with added minerals and mash pH adjustment

Then get in touch with the Brulosophy gang for some quadrangle testing.

Of the 8 people who got it right, 2 people preferred the beer fermented with well water, 2 people preferred 50/50, 2 people preferred straight RO water, and 2 people admitted they had no friggin idea where they were or what was going on.

 

[Bobo1898]

Say I start from distilled or RO, and my calcium isn't where I want it, but everything else is, is it silly to add pickling lime just for calcium (ignoring bicarbonate) when I'm adding acid to reach my pH in the mash? I know they counteract each other, but I hit my target profile when I add both.

Otherwise, I'm boosting my sulphate/chloride higher than I want, but keeping the same ratio in order to achieve the calcium I targeting.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

my calcium isn't where I want it, but everything else is

My gut says that adding pickling lime just for calcium is not the best strategy. What is your target Calcium? Why is that your target Calcium level? What level are you getting after adjusting your Sulfate and Chloride levels? I am not convinced that target levels of Calcium are that important. Brewing with my tap water, my Calcium will generally fall in the 40-100 range, and I am not sure I could tell the difference between the two ranges.

 

[Bobo1898]

What is your target Calcium? Why is that your target Calcium level? What level are you getting after adjusting your Sulfate and Chloride levels?

My target is 76 and I was getting 55. The 76 was part of a target profile that I've used for years, with a combination of tap/distilled, for a specific beer I was brewing. Ending up with 76 was a result of hitting specific sulfate/chloride at the time. Building from scratch didn't get me there.

I opted not to add pickling lime and decided that I should ignore calcium in this case.