Equal parts rye wheat and barley?

[daevidallen]

So having zero experience brewing with rye or wheat I decided it would be a good idea to do a batch with 1/3rd barley 1/3rd wheat and 1/3rd rye. I plan on doing a 10 gallon batch and pitching wyeast 3711 in one and 3333 in the other for a sort of roggenbeir/saison sort of deal. Any advice on procedure or recipe tweaks would be much appreciated. Protein rest? More rice hulls? ect. I really cant imagine how this will taste so I'm kind of just looking for reassurance that it wont be gross.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size (fermenter): 10.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.052 SG
Estimated Color: 5.1 SRM
Estimated IBU: 26.4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
7 lbs Rye Malt 33.3 %
7 lbs Superior Pilsen 33.3 %
7 lbs White Wheat Malt 33.3 %
1 lbs Rice Hulls

1.00 oz Saaz [7.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min 13.4 IBUs
1.00 oz Saaz [7.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min 8.1 IBUs
1.00 oz Saaz [7.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min 4.9 IBUs

1.0 pkg French Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711) Ferment at 72F
1.0 pkg German Wheat (Wyeast Labs #3333) Ferment at 64 F

Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 21 lbs
----------------------------
Mash @ 154.0 F for 60 min

 

[kingwood-kid]

It won't be gross, although maybe a little bland. Definitely cloudy. If you have no experience with either rye or wheat, you might consider using them one at a time so you can pinpoint where the flavors are coming from. You can easily brew a beer with 50-100% wheat, but from personal experience I would discourage you from going over 1/3 rye.

 

[zachattack]

I don't think it would be bland, I think it'll be great. Especially with the noble hops and two very flavorful yeasts. I do think it's a good idea to brew with either rye or wheat the first time, so you can taste the differences.

 

[JonM]

Rye has no hull, so if you do use a lot of rye, use a crapload of rice hills.

 

[kingwood-kid]

I don't think it would be bland, I think it'll be great. Especially with the noble hops and two very flavorful yeasts. I do think it's a good idea to brew with either rye or wheat the first time, so you can taste the differences.

Excellent points. I retract my bland assertion. I don't like hefes, so the 3333 beer wouldn't be for me, but the 3711 version looks tasty. Wheat doesn't have a hull either, but a lb of rice hulls should be sufficient.

 

[mrklueber]

I have brewed a roggenbier three or four times with ~50% rye malt. I would use at least 1# of rice hulls or you will get a stuck sparge. I think that with that much wheat and rye, I would go with 2# of rice hulls and I would use six-row barley malt instead of two-row to get more enzymes for the starch conversion as I don't think either wheat or rye have the necessary enzymes (but I could be wrong here).

 

[DAlexander]

With out rice hulls you will have a ROUGH time with laughter and sparge. Just brewed, last week, a red rye with 20% rye and noticed right off the bat during laughter that is was gonna be tricky. You dont want alot of goodness being left behind in that creative grain bed. Add rice hulls, take your time and let us know how it came out.

Also, dont know if other guys do this, soak your rice hulls in warm water for a bit before your mash and drain well before adding to the mash. Two reasons why- to rinse away any rice dust that may possibly impart flavors and (more importantly) because rice hulls will absorb their weight in water. Why lose efficiency if it can be avoided.

 

[zachattack]

He had rice hulls in the original recipe. Remember to plan a 90 minute boil with all that pils!

 

[kingwood-kid]

I have brewed a roggenbier three or four times with ~50% rye malt. I would use at least 1# of rice hulls or you will get a stuck sparge. I think that with that much wheat and rye, I would go with 2# of rice hulls and I would use six-row barley malt instead of two-row to get more enzymes for the starch conversion as I don't think either wheat or rye have the necessary enzymes (but I could be wrong here).

Malted wheat has more enzymes than 6-row. Enough so that you could brew a beer that was 1/3 wheat malt and 2/3 zero-enzyme grains with no conversion issues. Malted German rye has enough enzymes to convert itself, but not a whole lot more. North American rye malt has enough enzymes that you could use it to convert itself plus its own weight in adjuncts. And as mentioned several times already, the OP planned a lb of hulls, which is a lot. Weigh some out sometime and you'll see that hulls weigh almost nothing.

 

[beargrylls]

how'd this turn out? what was the color like? thinking about equal parts rye wheat and 2 row, with maybe a little caramel malt for extra color.

 

[daevidallen]

The 3333 version was good but nothing special, I think the esters from the yeast kind of clashed with the base beer. The 3711 version was amazing however. Ive done 35 batches but never repeated a recipe but I will be brewing 10 gallons of this saison once ambient temperatures get into the mid 70's. The color was very pale, especially for a saison and the FG went all the way down to 1.000 so it was extremely dry but still had good body. Overall its one of my favorite beers I've made.

 

[beargrylls]

sounds great. i have washed us05 and whitelabs witbier yeast, which would you choose for this?