what do you use to Clean in Place - HERMS coil ?

[steveoatley]

Hey HBT

I have a HERMS coil in my Boil Kettle/HLT

and i have some build up on my coil
Please see pic

I have scrubbed some off, but that doesn't seem to work

What is a Good - Clean in Place to SOAK ?
to get this off my Coil ?
- also i have a Blichmann Boil Coil in my pot as heat source ( not shown )
- the coil has some discoloring as well

but my SS HERMS coil seems to be the worst

I have tried PBW, soak, and heated up ..... does not seem to help
I have tried a White Vinegar soak & heated up didn't seem to help

I don't want to damage my Boil Coil with a too corrosive product

Thanks for your input

 

[spittybug]

My coil is in my HLT and I have a separate BK, but still clean the inside of my coil. I use warm oxyclean. I figure that if a good detergent/hot water doesn't remove the gunk, then the gunk won't be removed when brewing beer either. As long as you boil, you are killing bad guys...... the rest is just adjunct flavor!

 

[steveoatley]

Thanks Spittybug

Yeah - i am not worried about the build up coming off in the boil....

But it's my Stainless Steel coil !!

I want it to be clean and shinny - Bling Bling !!

Does anyone else have a CIP product?

thanks
S

 

[LarMoeCur]

http://www.birkocorp.com/brewery/white-papers/removing-beerstone-a-look-at-alternative-cleaning-methods/

The easy really not so easy way is caustics. My boil kettle and HLT are separate vessels so I don't have the coils to deal with. About every 5 batches, I break out the Bar Keepers Friend and go to work with a scotch brite pad. I believe its 7.5-9.5% Oxalic Acid. Which aids the break down of the stone.

 

[steveoatley]

http://www.birkocorp.com/brewery/white-papers/removing-beerstone-a-look-at-alternative-cleaning-methods/

The easy really not so easy way is caustics. My boil kettle and HLT are separate vessels so I don't have the coils to deal with. About every 5 batches, I break out the Bar Keepers Friend and go to work with a scotch brite pad. I believe its 7.5-9.5% Oxalic Acid. Which aids the break down of the stone.

LarMoeCur

What do you rinse with ?
the link you sent - says that a the BKF needs a rinse "phosphoric based acid to neutralize the caustic to remove any beerstone"

Thanks, i was going to try BKF next.....

My HERMS coil is "hard mounted" in the BK it is a whole day process to remove it, so that's why i am looking for a Clean in Place process.

S

 

[LarMoeCur]

That link is what commercial brewers would do. I don't think they are climbing into tanks and scrubbing but they could be. Their caustics are way stronger and with out agitation they need a rinse to break up the stone. On a homebrew scale, I can use elbow grease, BKF , water rinse. My tanks (brew kettle) don't cost tens of thousands of dollars so stopping the acidic effect is not as big of deal.

 

[steveoatley]

LarMo

Do you heat the BKF solution, or are you using as a "Paste" ??
as the maker suggests in using ?

I was thinking of making a Solution - and recirculating for a period of time
And since it's in the Kettle - heating couldn't hurt ? Could it ?

S

 

[LarMoeCur]

LarMo

Do you heat the BKF solution, or are you using as a "Paste" ??
as the maker suggests in using ?

I was thinking of making a Solution - and recirculating for a period of time
And since it's in the Kettle - heating couldn't hurt ? Could it ?

S

I fill a bucket with hot water. Not overly hot, I am hand cleaning. I get a scotch bright pad, I sprinkle in BKF where I think it needs to be, wet the scotch bright and go to work. I add more BKF and water as needed to remove the unwanted crud. I wouldn't say it's a paste but it's not a thin mix either. The then dump in what's left of the hot water and drain. I hose rinse and done.

Now about every 4 months, I do run some very hot PBW through my pumps to make sure there's no build up in my pumps. I cycle it through my HLT for one pump then through my boil kettle for the next pump. I also pump the hot PBW through my empty kegs to break down any beer stone that may creep up.

 

[steveoatley]

I do run some very hot PBW through my pumps to make sure there's no build up in my pumps. I cycle it through my HLT for one pump then through my boil kettle for the next pump.

I do that at the end of each brew day, but i must have done something wrong
recently - as the beer stone is building up

This is a recent problem, I have not had any beer stone in my HLT/BK for the year prior of brewing... not sure what i did to promote the Beer stone

it ain't going away on its own....

I just don't want to have to take my whole BK apart to clean it !

S

 

[LarMoeCur]

I wonder if your water has changed. Who knows.

https://www.morebeer.com/articles/removing_preventing_beerstone

I would do the "An Alternative Procedure" in this link. Hit that stuff with an acid wash at 140F for 30 minutes. It says Phosphoric/Nitric acid mix same ingredients as drain cleaner. I think Zep and Five Star make a mix. Rinse and rinse and rinse again!

 

[steveoatley]

So where can i buy Five Star ACID #5 ??

( phosphoric/nitric acid mixture )

that seems to be the one that would work for me ?

Not something my LHBS carries

Any ideas ?

S

 

[jmark]

Five Star also have a newer product, BS Remover, that worked okay for me. You use it and follow up with a star san soak to help passivate (at least that's what the instructions said so I followed them). I got an 8oz bottle from Adventures in Homebrewing for 7 or 8 bucks IIRC.

I think you could do the BKF approach mentioned above and use star san afterwards (which I believe has a phosphoric acid component).

 

[steveoatley]

Thanks Jmark

Adventures is my Local Home Brew supply store !

I will try the New Beer Stone product

S

 

[steveoatley]

SO... I tried the Five Star Beer Stone remover, and no luck

i poured all 8 oz into my kettle with 3.5 gall of water
Recirculated & heated it up

No Luck

So i am back to where can i buy the Phosphoric Acid #5 ?

Or i have to take my entire kettle apart to do a Physical cleaning

Any ideas?

Pic is my Kettle interior
HERMS Coil - 2 ports
Recirc arm - 1 port
BoilCoil (tm)
Thermometer in front
Thermo probe in back
90 degree elbow is my out put
Sight Glass - Spike Kettle
a total of 10 holes in my Kettle

The welds around the Thermometer & Sight glass are starting to discolor as well.

Steve

 

[jmark]

Okay... original link deleted, but you can get it from ChiCompany... very expensive and if you're not local, the shipping policy for this item makes it ridiculous!!!

 

[steveoatley]

WOW

looks like i would spend $195 to get 5 gallons of Acid Cleaner #5

I will shoot them an email to see if the will sell 1 gallon

Thanks for the link

S

 

[Dcpcooks]

Beerstone sucks. You need to hit it nitric acid then alkaline cleaner.
http://www.birkocorp.com/brewery/wh...stone-a-look-at-alternative-cleaning-methods/

 

[augiedoggy]

I fill a bucket with hot water. Not overly hot, I am hand cleaning. I get a scotch bright pad, I sprinkle in BKF where I think it needs to be, wet the scotch bright and go to work. I add more BKF and water as needed to remove the unwanted crud. I wouldn't say it's a paste but it's not a thin mix either. The then dump in what's left of the hot water and drain. I hose rinse and done.

Now about every 4 months, I do run some very hot PBW through my pumps to make sure there's no build up in my pumps. I cycle it through my HLT for one pump then through my boil kettle for the next pump. I also pump the hot PBW through my empty kegs to break down any beer stone that may creep up.

this is what I do... a green scotchbrite or even the non abrasive ones on a sponge with a little bar keepers friend from the grocery store and the beerstone practically wipes right off... I clean all my hardplumbed lines and rims and such with pbw every few brews or so and likely because of the nature of the moving liquid that stuff is always squeaky clean if I ever do pull something apart to change or upgrade something...

 

[steveoatley]

In order to do a Hand Cleaning - I would have to take my kettle apart
Please see pic above, and the pic on the 1 st page

I can not get my hand and a scrubby into the nooks and crannies.

Thanks for the suggestion

But that is why I am looking for the ACID cleaner - I can't get a scrubby into all those nooks & crannies.....
and the entire DAY it will take.... to take it apart + clean, and put back together.

maybe i'm just lazy......

Steve

 

[steveoatley]

so, if anyone is interested....

I got some Five Star ACID #5 - a gallon = $45.oo

check out the before & after.....

there is still some beer stone in my kettle..... you can see a bit in the pic

I'm going to try a again when i have some time

But i still might have to take my whole kettle A PART in order to clean it

as i was reading about Beer Stone, it seems to breed....multiplies around the site of growth....?!

So it will come back unless i get my kettle spotless !

S

 

[stevehaun]

Buy this at your local farm suppy - about $12 a gallon. Works great on beerstone. I also rinse my corney kegs with it.
http://www.stearnspkg.com/consumer-...terosol-milkstone-remover-and-acid-rinse.html

 

[steveoatley]

http://www.stearnspkg.com/consumer-b...cid-rinse.html

They do not sell to the public

And there are not any Farm & Fleet stores around Metro Detroit.....

S

 

[IslandLizard]

You can buy various concentrated acids and other stuff at DudaDiesel by the gallon (or larger, or smaller) and mix your own.

But first you need to find out what regimen will dissolve beer stone but not harm you SS (boil coil) using CIP.

I get beer stone deposits on my kettle too, but my system is much simpler, so it's easy to remove with BKF and a stiff brush. With all your coils and setup, I would never take that apart for routine cleaning, only when it needs servicing.

 

[dunnry]

http://www.stearnspkg.com/consumer-b...cid-rinse.html

They do not sell to the public

And there are not any Farm & Fleet stores around Metro Detroit.....

S

Out of curiosity, I looked to see where I could buy this Sterosol milkstone removal acid. I found it at both TruValue hardware and Tractor Supply Co, which are both relatively local to me. You could check the same.

The only reason I would be interested in this is because Acid Cleaner #5 is pretty expensive to get. I found one place that sold it for $20 or so, but their price has climbed to $55 a gal.

Both of these use phosphoric acid, but it is not clear if Sterosol also has the nitric acid that Acid #5 does.