2 separate mashes - 1 beer

[thehaze]

Hello,

I know about reiterated mash and the no sparge method, where you simply add all water needed to reach your final volume.

I am interested in mashing two times - the same beer - and then blend it in the kettle and boiling it for 2-3 hours. Can I obtain a thick, syrupy beer by doing so? How would I go forward with the water profile and treatment?

Thank you.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Are you mashing using BIAB or using classic techniques?

 

[Qhrumphf]

If you're simply doing two seperate identical mashes and blending in the kettle all you've done is make the same beer at twice the batch size.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're asking.

I've never tried reiterative mashing but it's been on my list. Was joking about taking it to the extreme, and double mashing a 25°P stout to see how high it can actually go. If the stories are to be believed and it literally just stacks, it'd be funny to have a 50°P wort. I doubt even WLP099 could do much with that one lmao.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I was thinking along these lines: if the first runnings from each mash were combined into a single kettle, then the OG would start out high for the 2-3 hour boil.

late addition: Radical Brewing and Methods of Modern Homebrewing have a couple of sections on reiterative mashing (DOBLE-DOBLE in Radical Brewing). Neither appears to do more than a 2nd mash. At the Beer and Wine Journal web site, there is mention of a batch with a 3rd mash, but didn't see any details.

 

[day_trippr]

No-sparge iterative mash ending in 50°P? Woof! Pancake syrup?
Could probably pull a 20°P partigyle out of the leavings. At least that one might actually ferment out

But, yeah, back to reality, sparging = boil time. Lots of sparging = lots of boil time...

Cheers!

 

[Qhrumphf]

No-sparge iterative mash ending in 50°P? Woof! Pancake syrup?
Could probably pull a 20°P partigyle out of the leavings. At least that one might actually ferment out

But, yeah, back to reality, sparging = boil time. Lots of sparging = lots of boil time...

Cheers!

Utopias, we're coming for you...

 

[thehaze]

I have a Grainfather. My idea was to mash twice - each mash would have the exact same grain bill. I would skip sparge for each mash. I then blend them together and boil for 2, maybe 3 hours if I have the time. My problem is the capacity of the Grainfather. It can hold 9 Kg / 19.5 lbs of grains, which is max. I plan on mashing 7.5 kg / 16.5 lbs for each of the 2 mashes. I skip the sparge and only combine the mash wort itself and boil.

Does this sound off? Can I expect a thicker beer?

 

[Miraculix]

I have a Grainfather. My idea was to mash twice - each mash would have the exact same grain bill. I would skip sparge for each mash. I then blend them together and boil for 2, maybe 3 hours if I have the time. My problem is the capacity of the Grainfather. It can hold 9 Kg / 19.5 lbs of grains, which is max. I plan on mashing 7.5 kg / 16.5 lbs for each of the 2 mashes. I skip the sparge and only combine the mash wort itself and boil.

Does this sound off? Can I expect a thicker beer?

If you do it this way, which should work, maybe also sparge each mash but collect that in a different vessel to brew a small beer with it!

 

[thehaze]

I thought about sparging and collecting, and see what it gets me - it's safe to assume that the spent grains will contain a fair amount of sugar still. Maybe do like a smooth Belgian Stout/Brown Ale of sort.

 

[Miraculix]

I thought about sparging and collecting, and see what it gets me - it's safe to assume that the spent grains will contain a fair amount of sugar still. Maybe do like a smooth Belgian Stout/Brown Ale of sort.

The British classic for this approach would be a (dark) mild. I like those, basically a bit like a low abv stout with a hopping range on the lower end. But there's much room for interpretation and at the very end, the only important thing is that you like the product.

 

[thehaze]

The beer will be brewed in a few days. Final recipe is:

35% Bestmalz Pilsner
29% Simpsons Imperial
36% combination of Simpsons DRC, Simpsons Light Crystal, Thomas Fawcett Roasted Rye, Thomas Pale Chocolate, Crisp Black Malt and Crisp Roasted Rye
Lactose and 1 Tonka bean - crushed - in the last 5 minutes
Mash temp. 160F
Mash time 1 hour each mash
Boil for 2 hours straight
Predicted OG: 1.120
FG - hopefully around 1.055 for 8.5% ABV or around that number at least
Around 70 IBUs

I am very excited for this beer.

 

[thehaze]

I brewed 3 beers today: 2 sour ales and the stout. I did two full 60 minutes mashes with 8.5 Kg/18.7 lb grains in each. That's too much for the Grainfather and the efficiency took a serious hit. I combined the mashes and then boiled for only 90 minutes, as I didn't have the strength to power through 2-3 hours of boil. The final gravity was 1.102. I expected more, but then again, efficiency with big grains bills in the Grainfather is outstandingly lousy. If I would've boiled 1 hour more, then the OG would've been around 1.110 or so. No biggie.

I mashed at 158F/70C. I added just a tad of lactose at the end, with cinnamon powder, cinnamon sticks and grated tonka beans. Added 5 sachets of US-05 ( 24 liters/around 6.5 gallons in the fermenter ) and now I'm waiting for visible signs of fermentation. Due to the high mash temp. and lactose, I think FG will stop somewhere around 1.045, making this beer a low-ish 7.5% ABV, which would be great. I plan on adding Madagascar Vanilla extract and paste ( Nielsen Massey ) at bottling.

*The wort did look thick and syrupy going into the fermenter. And it tasted good. I'll post some photos when I'll try a bottle, somewhere in April.

 

[hottpeper13]

I don't know if this can be done in a Grainfather , but this is my procedure. Do the first mash and drain into BK #1. do a batch sparge of first mash and drain into BK # 2 or a grant that can be heated. Add liquor to the sparge wort to get to the strike volume and temp you need for the 2nd mash. Pump this (strike liquor) to the mash tun and the second round of grain. mash as normal and drain into BK #1 and boil the first runnings. The best I've done for O.G. is 10 gal into fermenter of 1.134 wort. If you have a second BK you can sparge the second mash and make a small beer,we've gotten anywhere from 1.040 to 1.060 for the small beer depending on the cap grains. We've also blended the 10 gal first runnings with 5 gal of the small beer(a true partigyle) so we can fill a 15 gal barrel with one brew, those came in at 1.092- 1.100. Hope this helps you get a higher O. G. without DME.

 

[thehaze]

Hey, thanks for the reply. I've thought ( and knew ) about reiterated mash ( the procedure you were describing ), but I skipped it this time. I wanted to experiement with double mash and see if the result would be good. I wasn't prepared for the partigyle, so I skipped that as well, although next time I will not. A little beer can be easily done with the sparge runnings from these type of mashes.

I am not sad about the OG. I think it's better this way, as I wasn't planning for a 10+% beer. My plan is a 7-7.5% ABV Stout, with the mouthfeel and body of a bigger beer.

 

[thehaze]

I brewed this beer on February 6th, 2020 and bottled it on February 21st, 2020. The adjusted OG was 1.103 and FG was 1.052. I am shooting for around 1.9 vol. CO2. So 6.7% ABV. 2 mashes combined in the kettle. The wort was thick going into the fermenter. I will open one bottle tomorrow to sample the beer. I will post a picture and some notes.