Are you a brewer?

[McKBrew]

There are a few commercial micro-breweries that use extracts, does that mean that they are really not brewers? It really doesn't matter how you make beer, you are still a brewer in my opinion.

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

Making beer vs Brewing beer? Personally I make wine with a wine kit, I'm a "wine maker" when I crush strawberries etc to make a strawberry wine.

I think you should at least have to boil something for an hour to pay your brewer dues.

I don't think those breweries use prehopped extract though.

Regardless, as long as you are making beer, that is better than not making beer!

 

[McKBrew]

I would agree if you use a pre-hopped kit with no modifications, you might not really be a brewer. But as soon as you start adding hops, specialty grains, etc... to a base malt, whether is be liquid, dry, or grain you are a brewer. If you pick up any homebrewing book neither Palmer, Papazian, Miller or Zanisheff say that you have to be AG to be a brewer.

 

[pjj2ba]

Anybody at any level, one can be either a brewer or simply a mixer. I'll use an analogy from one of my other hobbies. I've known some "musicians" who had technical mastery of their instrument, but didn't play musically. They could play with blazing speed, loud, quiet, never miss a note or a beat. Amazing for sure, but it just wasn't moving. I've also known some who I would call true musicians, and they would make little mistakes here and there, but they were able to draw you in and touch your emotions. Very moving, and much more enjoyable.

I think one could have technical mastery of the brewing arts, and make very good beers, but that little something extra is missing. On the other hand I think someone who might not have the technique down precisely, but has some "knack" and is able to produce beers that are simply sublime. It's that "Je ne sais quoi".

 

[Brewtopia]

You're not a brewer unil you brew on a commercial level and sell that beer for a profit. Until then you are a HOMEbrewer.

 

[the_bird]

Wait until your lease is signed before talkin' smack there, 'Topia....

 

[BierMuncher]

I dunno...

You tell me:

 

[olllllo]

He's a brewer and soon to be brewing magnate.

Brewtopia has sold his beer.

 

[kenche]

As for the **** comment, if that's your feelings then feel free to walk away from my **** stirring threads.

I'm not actually looking for an answer, I don't need an answer .

It's a little thing called the art of conversation.
Also being interested in the wide and interesting views of fellow members of this fine forum.

hmmm, maybe this didn't translate so well. In my region, the phrase 'stirring up ****' simply means that someone brings up what they know will be a controversial subject which will likely lead to a polarizing debate/discussion.

It was not intended to be a crtiticism.

 

[PeteOz77]

The process of making beer starts with preparing the ground for growing hops and grain

I would have thought that part of the process would be called "Farming"

I guess a true woodworking craftsman isn't an artist if he doesn't plant the trees that he makes his handcrafted masterpieces from?

I don't think the production of raw materials is a necessary part of the brewing process.

Using that logic, I doubt anyone would become a chef! Imagine the size of the plot you would need to:

Grow the grain, to feed the cattle
A place to raise the cattle
A slaughterhouse to kill the cattle

Just to make a hmaburger pattie

Also:
Grow the grain, to make the flour
A grain mill to make the flour
Your own yeast bank to raise the bread
A commercial over to bake it.

I haven't even started on the cheese, ketchup and other condiments...

You get the point.

Obviously there is a lot of area between this scenario and feeding you family by driving up to the window at Macdonalds

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

And that changes the question HOW?

I was being satirically egotistical.

 

[homebrewer_99]

HB,

I'm looking for opinions, I'm not trying to say my point of view is right. It's just a point of view. I asked the question because I want to hear what others think.

The reason I asked is because when I added extract to water and pitched yeast I didn't feel like a brewer and felt cheated of the experience. Hell yeah, I made tasty beer but it was someone else's expertise and work that made it tasty.

That's OK. You got my opinion...

I can understand that you may feel better if you were deeper into the process, but where does it stop? After you AG for a while do you get an itch to grow and malt your own grain? I don't think it's necessary to get that deep into a hobby. If it were a job I would understand the point a bit differently though, but I would never say extract brewers are not brewers...OK, maybe as a joke, but not seriously.

I don't think extract brewers are necessarily relying on someone else experience either, just their labor...and we pay extra per pound for it. We're also skipping a step or two in doing so.

When I was younger I used to spend my money on models: planes, monsters, cars, etc., but I never got the urge to make my own molds and melt plastic down to make my own. Some people may have, but not me.

Cheers!!

 

[PeteOz77]

I don't purchase the beer that I drink. I make it.
I start with water, yeast and a conentrated Wort that I rehydrate. I control the amount of Malt, Hops, water and steeping grains that are added (or not added) I monitor and control the process from start to finish (well the yeast has a bit of a say in there as well..) and keg or bottle and carbonate it to my satisfaction.

Just because I didn't crush the grain, (Or grow it or malt it) and I didn't manually extract the malt from the grain, doesn't mean that I have not produced my own beer, does it?

When I bake a cake, I don't grow or mill that grain, I let someone else with that equipment do it for me, and I purchase a semi finished product. Same with the butter.. I didn't make that either, it's just another ingredient. I didn't grow or process the fruits or nuts either. Would my cakes be "Better" if I controlled the entire process? Maybe, maybe not, but either way, I baked a cake and didn't BUY a premade, mediocre cake that has been produced to suit the masses... I made MY cake!


Mmmmmm Beer....
Mmmmmm Cake....

And yes I do plan to go AG soon. More for the knowledge gained and the ability to say that I can do it, than I think I will make better beer. I reckon the guys who do it for a living are probably better at it than I am.

 

[PeteOz77]

I was being satirically egotistical.

Ahh, the satire.. that's what I missed

 

[chillHayze]

We all make beer.
Some EX and PM brewers do better that some AG brewers.
The proof is in the puddin' if you ask me. Good beer makes a good brewer, but bad beer, that just makes a brewer who has more to learn.

Cheers to all those who make it!

 

[malkore]

There are 'levels' or tiers of brewing.

I can make tastey food, but I'm not a 'chef' in the traditional sense.

I would tier brewing as:

1. extract
2. AG (includes PM)
3. Commercial brewing

each follows pretty similar skill sets and tasks, but each has its own sub-set of requirements and technical savvyness required.

 

[eschatz]

i dont know, but i'm thinking ready meal and a piece of toast would be nice right now!

 

[Sean]

To cook is to bring different ingredients together to achieve an individual flavor or reproduce one.

To Brew. To bring together ingredients to achieve an individual flavor, or reproduce one.

To be a beer brewer, I think you have to know what you want your end product to be before you begin.

ie. an IPA, with floral hops, or a rich malty porter. Then you have to select the proper ingredients and combine them with a bit of skill.

 

[BierMuncher]

The real question is whether we should brew these beers indoors with propane, in the converted keg we didn't return from our last party, using bleach to sanitize everything, and skipping the secondary because we use extra gelatin to clear our beer...

 

[uglygoat]

don't forget to piss on the beer bottles to remove the labels..

 

[Mutine Bullfrog]

I think your a brewer when you start creating and brewing your own recipes whether it's extract or all grain.

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

The real question is whether we should brew these beers indoors with propane, in the converted keg we didn't return from our last party, using bleach to sanitize everything, and skipping the secondary because we use extra gelatin to clear our beer...

Don't forget your primary is plastic, and you bottle with twist off's.

You grind your grains with a coffee grinder and you use you finger for a thermometer.

 

[RICLARK]

don't forget to piss on the beer bottles to remove the labels..

I thought you only pissed on jelly fish stings?:cross:

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

I thought you only pissed on jelly fish stings?:cross:

I urinate on mine and let them sit in the sun. Labels come right off and it makes for good conversation later on when my buddy's are drinking the beer

Only good thing that guy ever said. lol

 

[BuffaloSabresBrewer]

Like its already been stated I think there are different levels. Similar to when I classified my guitar students when I taught lessons...there were guitar owners, guitar players, and the rare guitarist.

 

[Orfy]

hmmm, maybe this didn't translate so well. In my region, the phrase 'stirring up ****' simply means that someone brings up what they know will be a controversial subject which will likely lead to a polarizing debate/discussion.

It was not intended to be a crtiticism.

Well Kenche, it seems you are right.

I just asked a simple question. You lot stirred the **** but I suppose I supplied the stick (question)



I think the real answer (If there is one) is that if you consider yourself a brewer then you are a brewer because other peoples opinions don't really matter.

 

[PeteOz77]

Don't forget your primary is plastic, and you bottle with twist off's.

WOW! you really ARE an EAC! Poking fun at the material a fermenter is made of and the type of bottles used.

I Wish my beer was as amazingly wonderful as yours is!

Of course, the fermenter material has no bearing on the final product.

The capping style of the bottle is irrelevant.

Your ability with AG equipment is most likely less efficient, less sanitary as well as a LOT less practiced and professional than the people who make the extract kits that I buy.

So all things being considered, I am most likely making MUCH better beer in my plastic fermenter, using a complete extract brew and bottling in twist offs than you can make.

But.. you think you are the real deal, so I guess I'll just get back in my box.. and "NOT brew" my beer that I am very happy with and all of my friends think is fantastic.

 

[the_bird]

And AGAIN, we have a failure of the Sarcasm Meter...

 

[Mike C]

Is the art of brewing mearly pitching yeast?

Or does it have to involve more?

I personally don't consider mixing extract water and yeast brewing.
Yes it is making beer but it's a bit like putting a ready meal in the microwave and buttering a piece of bread. You can't call your self a chef.

I'm not getting into the debate about good beer coming from purely extract and I'm not saying people shouldn't do it.

So my question is;

Is every one that makes beer a brewer?

The knowledge I have gained in my short time brewing my own beer has been invaluable. Regardless of whether or not I'm using an extract kit, I brewed it. I boiled the water, I mixed in the malt and timed my hop additions, and I added the yeast. Sure, it may have been prepackaged in a kit, and I may not have bred the yeast, but I made it all happen where it counts.

So get off your high horse already. Feh.

...what was that about feeding trolls? lol

Cheers~

 

[MikeFlynn74]

somebodys and EAC

 

[Mike C]

Oh oh oh. Wait just a second there. Orfy, you are a MODERATOR for gosh sake. Have you no shame???

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

Yeesh guys, have your sarcasm detectors been turned off this week?

Those were all items that were hotly debated in the past leading no where. The type of statements that immediately lead to 100 post counts. lol

Rememebr, 1 2 3 4 breath, 1 2 3 4 breath...

 

[Silviakitty]

I didn't feel like a brewer when I was using Mr Beer (that's a personal opinion, not a judgement. ). I did feel like a brewer when I used my first Brewer's Best kit. I'm feeling more like a brewer now that I'm gathering ingredients for recipes rather than using kits.

Basically, I consider myself a neophyte brewer.

 

[Willy Boner]

Brewing is like sex,some people need more equipment and to take more time,but...... get the same results !

 

[Jaybird]

Brewing is like sex,some people need more equipment and to take more time,but...... get the same results !

LMMFAO I love the screen name!!! to brew or not to brew. "ARE YOU A BREWER"
who cares!!!!!

CHEERS
JJ

 

[Silviakitty]

Mmmmmm Beer....
Mmmmmm Cake....

Mmmmmm Beercake...

 

[BierMuncher]

...Rememebr, 1 2 3 4 breath, 1 2 3 4 breath...

Hey...hey...hey...who do you think you are?!?!?!?

If I want to breath...I'll breath. And I'll do it when I'm ready. And if I want to breath 123, 123 and not your 1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4 method as you think is so peeeerfect...then that's what I'll damn well do... Just cuz I don't do it exactly your way doesn't mean I'm not a breather...

Who died and made you the grand pubah of breathing anyway???

Maybe I'll just stop breathing altogether because it doesn't adhere to your strict guidelines for breathing...

You...you.......you.....breathing EAC.....

[mutter]...telling me to breath... who does he think he is anyway...[/mutter]








<<<...sarcasm indicator...

 

[PeteOz77]

Yeesh guys, have your sarcasm detectors been turned off this week?

Those were all items that were hotly debated in the past leading no where. The type of statements that immediately lead to 100 post counts. lol

Rememebr, 1 2 3 4 breath, 1 2 3 4 breath...

That's one of the troubles with having a discussion online. It's very difficult to determine how things are delivered, even if you do use emoticons.

"Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit"

 

[homebrewer_99]

I don't know...my "Sarcasmeter" is working fine...

 

[McKBrew]

If AG is what truly makes you a brewer, then I finally am one. All though not a very skilled one.