Best pH meter for my needs? Recommendations?

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Braufessor

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I am looking to buy a new pH meter. I had a cheap one that was questionable at best - I would rather buy new and good, than replace parts on the one I have. I am willing to spend up to or around $100 if it is a worthwhile piece of equipment.

I looked at other threads, but they are of varying dates, and not sure what the most current thoughts are.

I would like a pH meter that is:
*Dependable/Durable
*Accurate (.01)
*Consistent
*Simple/basic to use
*Simple to calibrate
*Don't need bells and whistles like temp. control or any add ons that will potentially just be one more thing to go wrong or break. Just something that simply, consistently, accurately gives me my room temperature pH - without excessive maintenance or work on my part.

I would appreciate any recommendations some of you might have of something that would fit the bill.

THANKS!
 
Check this out

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/ph-meter-calibration-302256/

I recently bought the hach plus model and already own the MW 102. On my second probe for the MW, first one lasted a year. I had been storing in the 7.01 cal solution, not the storage solution though. That might have been part of problem.

Only used the hach once and compared with the MW. I didn't have the fully instructions on the hach, the the included cartoon instructions were more confusing than helpful.

I like the dummy proof aspect of the temp correction being built in personally.

TD
 
Hach Pocket Pro+ #9532000

Milwaukee MW102

Hanna 98128

All have replaceable electrodes. The Milwaukee and Hanna have the resolution and accuracy you're looking for, but the Hach is smaller and perhaps easier to store.
All three have adequate resolution (0.01) and 'accuracy' though only Hach tells you what their accuracy figure really means. From this list I'd scratch the Hanna and add Omega's new pocket pH meter. The Hanna suffers from one major design flaw and that is that it decides when to accept a calibration reading rather than letting you do so and it accepts readings too soon. The result is a freshly calibrated meter that isn't calibrated.

As for ATC: it is built into all modern meters as they compute pH in a microprocessor. The algorithm requires knowledge of temperature of buffers in order to compute calibration coefficients and of sample in order to convert electrode mV readings to pH.

See https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/ph-meter-calibration-302256/
for more on use of pH meters.
 
Not sure if this helps any, but here is my thread when I was deciding between the Hach and the MW-102.

I ended up with the MW-102 and I am very happy with it.

Also lower in the thread I posted an unboxing video of the meter:
pH meter thread
 
Thanks for all the insights. After looking at the Hach and the MW-102 a little more closely, I went with the MW102....... Looks like it will work well for my set up. Found some good video's outlining calibration, use, etc. Seems like something even I can figure out:)
 
Hach Pocket Pro+ #9532000

Milwaukee MW102

Hanna 98128 (Calibration issues according to AJ)

Omega PHH7011

All have replaceable electrodes and the resolution/'accuracy' you're looking for.

I've been quite happy with the HI98128...not sure I understand the calibration issues mentioned in the other threads and have to say I liked the price point a lot.
 
...not sure I understand the calibration issues mentioned in the other threads and have to say I liked the price point a lot.

Calibrating a pH meter is just like calibrating a scale. When you calibrate a scale you put two weights on it one of which is 0 and the other of which is close a fair fraction of the maximum weight the scale can handle. After the cal procedure is over it is to be fervently hoped that it will read 0 with no weight on the pan and the calibration weight value with the calibration weight on the pan. If, after calibrating a pH meter, you return to electrode to either of the buffers used for calibration it should read the pH of the buffer. With the Hanna meter it doesn't and the reason is clear. It takes time for the electrode to stabilize. To see this, put the electrode in pH 7 buffer and leave it there. Now remove it, rinse it, blot it and put it into 4 buffer. What happens? The reading plummets close to 4 very quickly but then approaches 4 gradually. While the reading should be very close to its stable value within 30 seconds it will probably take 5 minutes before it is completely stable. If doing a calibration you should really wait about 5 minutes before accepting a buffer reading for this reason. Many meters have automatic stability detection which lights an asterisk on the display or stops one from flashing or beeps or something like that when the voltage changes by less than some threshold amount per unit of time. Fancy meters with this feature usually allow you to set that voltage to correspond to 0.1 pH, 0.01 pH or 0.001 pH per minute. Thus the meter doesn't signal a stable reading until the drift is less than what you have selected. In calibration the better meters will have you put the meter into the buffer, monitor the display and let you decide when the reading is stable enough to accept for calibration purposes. The pHep meter does not. It has its own ideas as to when the reading is stable enough and accepts the reading when that level of stability has been reached. The problem is that it takes the reading too soon. If it waited longer the electrode would, in a given buffer, settle at a voltage enough different from the voltage at the time the meter did the calibration to make the calibration invalid. You can't do anything about this except ignore the meter's internal calibration, use the meter as a volt meter and do calibration and correction manually - a big PITA. This is a pity as the unit appears to be pretty stable once it settles down.

Try the stability check described at https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/ph-...ration-302256/. Perhaps your electrode responds quickly enough that you don't have this problem.
 
Try the stability check described at https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/ph-...ration-302256/. Perhaps your electrode responds quickly enough that you don't have this problem.

When I bought the meter I did that or a similar stability test. Here were my results. The CDN temperature measurement was from my regular brewing temperature probe.

ph-meter-stability-64912.png


I concluded the average reading of 4.03 or 4.04 is really 4.01 was close enough for my typical questions.
 
I'd be happy if that was my variance vs temp. I've got a pH meter I like a lot. I calibrate a lot (!). Mine does adjust with temperature, but I've no idea if its accurate.

It's my second, after ruining my first due to poor maintenance. Store your meter properly or buy a new one.
 
So for me i have narrowed it down to:

The Omega PHH-7011. It comes with a case and I can get a pint of pH4 and PH7 solution. All of that shipped is about ~$127 (note the guy told me to store my electrode in pH4 calibration solution.. is that true?)

Milwaukee MW102. I can get it for $89 and once I get a case, pH4 solution (220mL), pH7 solution (220mL), and Storage solution (220mL) it will be ~$136 with free shipping.

So now its a preference choice I guess. I am interested in how OP likes his MW102 because i need help deciding myself.
 
So for me i have narrowed it down to:
(note the guy told me to store my electrode in pH4 calibration solution.. is that true?)

NO!

I recently called the process reliability manager for Endress+Hauser after seeing an article on pH meter care and reliability he had authored. That company makes high-end industrial pH equipment for process control. I have an article on his recommendations on the Bru'n Water page in Facebook if you would like to review.

Anyhow, his recommendation was to store it in a 50/50 mix of pH4 solution and 3 molar KCl solution (aka: 1.5 molar KCl solution). The important thing is that pH 4 solution is nearly distilled water and it will leach the KCl out of your probe which will likely shorten its life. Store it properly and the probe will probably last for years.

PS: I can vouch for the Milwaukee probe since it is a double-junction, gel-filled unit that I've had for about 3 years now. The Omega unit is an all-in-one unit with a proprietary probe unit. I can't tell if that probe is double-junction or not. You can read more about what I think about all-in-one pH meters on the Bru'n Water Facebook page.
 
The Omega PHH-7011. It comes with a case and I can get a pint of pH4 and PH7 solution. All of that shipped is about ~$127 (note the guy told me to store my electrode in pH4 calibration solution.. is that true?)

You store it in what the manufacturer's instructions tell you to store it in. Generally this is a saturated (or near saturated) solution of potassium chloride. Often the manufacturer sells a solution for this purpose. Apparently some of them are buffered to a fairly low pH (as KCl is a neutral salt and the pH meter often reads around 3 when in the storage solution). It is doubtless easier to buy the manufacturer's offering but if you are really cheap you could go to the supermarket and by some salt substitute and distilled water and mix them up.
 
that was a pretty intresting read.. also i liked the video of the 1930s brewery.

Is KCL something I can buy at the store and mix my own solution or do I just order it off the net?

I didnt see any solution on the Omega website.. all they have is buffer solution
 
The important thing is that pH 4 solution is nearly distilled water and it will leach the KCl out of your probe which will likely shorten its life.
A pH 4 solution can be distilled water with a wee bit of, for example, HCl in it. Or it could be a strong solution of sodium sulfate with a wee bit of sulfuric acid in it. The important point is that if it does not contain potassium ion and chloride ion there will be a chemical potential difference between the gel in the reference cell and the storage solution and those ions will migrate out. Thus you must, for the conventional KCl, Ag/AgCl reference meter, have KCl in the storage solution. But meter technology keeps advancing. Ag/AgCl with a ceramic frit isn't the only reference cell design out there any more. Therefore, you store it according to the manufacturer's recommendation. If he says store it in mild kimchee, store it in mild kimchee, even if you prefer the spicy.


I can't tell if that probe is double-junction or not.
And it doesn't matter. Twenty years ago I would strongly recommend a refillable, double junction, renewable junction electrode absolutely. With modern design none of the above seem necessary. One of the biggest modern improvements seems to be the 'rag junction' as I call it because I can't remember the name of the material but it looks like a piece of rag. This has become quite popular and reduced the cost of good electrodes substantially.

The best electrodes I have ever used are single junction. I just can't kill these things. I finally threw the one I had been using for over 5 years out simply because I had a new one sitting on the shelf assuming I'd never get 5 years out of a pH electrode.

You can read more about what I think about all-in-one pH meters on the Bru'n Water Facebook page.
I'll tell you what I think of them and, as I don't do Facebook, I'll tell you right here. Technological marvels! That is, of course, provided you get a good one. Depending on what you are trying to do there are some potential disadvantages. Most of them are low cost intended for spot checking of things here and there around the plant. As such they don't have features like mV display mode, ability to store data in memory, communicate with a computer and, the main one, a probe narrow enough to cram into the narrow neck of a graduated cylinder or small reagent bottle. Other than that they are fine and represent absolutely as good a source of accurate pH meter readings as comparably priced benchtop meters. See https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/ph-meter-calibration-302256/ for some tips on pH meter calibration or use but in this context for the stability graphs (which are the ultimate reflection of pH meter accuracy).

As I don't do Facebook I can't see what Martin thinks but he used to have some interesting theories about ATC being detrimental in an inexpensive meter because it forced the manufacturer to put money into ATC components that would have been better spent on the electrodes and other electronics. Don't know if he still thinks that way but if he's still does, ignore it.

BTW, this is not intended to convince anyone that he should by a pocket meter but rather to exhort people not to let anyone convince them that they shouldn't. A well made pocket meter (e.g. Hach and quite possibly this Omega) will give you readings just as good as a siimlarly priced benchtop unit. Buy whichever you prefer.
 
I spoke with Omega again... the buffer solution does contain Potassium.. here is a copy from teh MSDS sheet for their buffer solution

Section 3 – Composition, Information on Ingredients
Potassium Acid Phthalate, CAS# 877-24-7, <1% w/v
Water, purified, CAS# 7732-18-5, >98% w/v
 
The important point is that if it does not contain potassium ion and chloride ion there will be a chemical potential difference between the gel in the reference cell and the storage solution and those ions will migrate out. Thus you must, for the conventional KCl, Ag/AgCl reference meter, have KCl in the storage solution.

Thanks for the info AJ, but since C8H5KO4 doesnt contain any chloride (unless it is in the "Purified Water", should I buy a storage solution or just go with their buffer.
 
Since they recommend storage in buffer, store in buffer. There is no need for a special storage solution. We don't know what the fill is nor the junction design and the explanation as to why KCl is often used applies to the standard Ag/AgCl reference and may not apply here.

Just as a point of reference, the Hach Pocket Pro has some sort of new junction unlike any I have ever seen before. It is stored with some water in the cap to keep the humidity up in there. As the water does not contact the junction K+ and Cl- can't flow out into the water and water can't flow in along chemical potential gradients.
 
I already purchased mine (omega with a pint of each calibration soluion).. but here may be another option thats a little cheaper. It displays +/-0.01 resolution with 0.05 accuracy and can calibrate up to 3 points. Single Junction ~$70

Dwyer pH Pen Tester
 
Hi all, I'm considering getting the Thermoworks 8100 pH & Temperature Meter Kit, it has ATC and all. Has anyone here used or is using it now, if so, what do you think of it.
 
That meter is spec'd at accuracy 0.05 pH. For about the same money you can get a Milwaukee MW102 or Hach Pro + each of which has accuracy of 0.01. Besides which many people on HBT have had positive experiences with each of those meters.
 
What does hach pocket pro + suggest for storage by the way?

Nothing. Unless they forgot to mention it in the instruction manual, they recommend nothing.

Here's all it says about storage:

"Before the initial calibration and after a dry storage, soak the sensor for several minutes in the sample or tap water."
 
Thanks for all the insights. After looking at the Hach and the MW-102 a little more closely, I went with the MW102....... Looks like it will work well for my set up. Found some good video's outlining calibration, use, etc. Seems like something even I can figure out:)

Enjoy! I have that same meter and I like it a lot. It works well and hds calibration great. I still calibrate every brew day but I see very little drift even when it sits for months. It will usually read +-0.05 of a fresh calibration buffer.
 
OK I have made my choice..I'm going to buy the Hatch Pro +...good enough for me.

Now what one of these do I need for it, there are 3 different solutions to choose from.

Knowing this fancy-schamcy PH info better make my beer taste better Da**it ... it is 1/3 the cost of my whole rig.:rolleyes:

Pocket_Pro+_pH_Tester_with_Replaceable_Sensor_Hach_USA_-_Overview_Hach_-_2016-02-22_14.00.10.jpg
 
The single use ketchup packs are very handy and very expensive. Get these instead and mix your own buffers from the contents of the pillows and 50 mL DI (or RO if you can't get DI) water.

http://www.hach.com/buffer-powder-p...ellow-pk-50/product?id=7640205050&callback=qs

http://www.hach.com/buffer-powder-p...d-red-pk-50/product?id=7640204347&callback=qs

and a couple of these to put the buffers in.
http://www.hach.com/sample-container-120ml-high-pf/product?id=7640237101&callback=qs

Awesome you just saved me some $ Thanks Mate!
 
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