^^^That's why I made the comments I did. Been down that road since I was a kid. Nevermore...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
brew-divorce
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bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
I don't think we have enough information/details to really make some of the sweeping statements that have been made... it could be the guy spends most of his free time brewing, doesn't make a lot of money, and his wife has had it up to here and threw in the gauntlet. In that case unless the other 3 off you are broke @sses as well, it would be the friendly thing to do to just pay him out. In theory brewing equipment depreciates, but in actuality it doesn't unless you are planning to sell it. Its not like a car, where everytime you brew the bottoms of the kettles get a little thinner so that you are definitely looking at replacement at some time in the future. Maybe the electronics crap will need to be replaced at some point but basically a brew set up lasts a lifetime.
I'm curious about what happened myself. Or maybe he's thinking,"why buy the cow when I can get the milk for free"? I know times are tough nowadays,hell,I'm retired. But that also means people will take advantage of a situation if they think they can profit buy it. Bills have to be paid,kids have to be fed. I'll tell you folks something an old friend said to me,some 20 years ago..."If you can think of it,chances are pretty good they did too". 'nuff said.
so the system in question was purchased new 1 year ago for $5K.
Whatever the reason for leaving the brew quartet, It's harsh to ask your buddies for $333 cash each because of your decision (no matter what the reason is). Sure it would be nice if we could all get get cash back from stuff that we have purchased in the past but now no longer use, much less 80% of retail.
I would go $100 tops each and maybe a share of some of the future brews. If you 3 were kicking him out, then he would entitled to his share of the rig, but it's his decision to leave/quit (again, it could be a legit reason like health or new job, but it's still his to make). Hitting your buddies up for a $333 bill out of the blue is not cool.
Whatever the reason for leaving the brew quartet, It's harsh to ask your buddies for $333 cash each because of your decision (no matter what the reason is). Sure it would be nice if we could all get get cash back from stuff that we have purchased in the past but now no longer use, much less 80% of retail.
I would go $100 tops each and maybe a share of some of the future brews. If you 3 were kicking him out, then he would entitled to his share of the rig, but it's his decision to leave/quit (again, it could be a legit reason like health or new job, but it's still his to make). Hitting your buddies up for a $333 bill out of the blue is not cool.
I think the 25% current market value payout was a decent idea... sounds fair. Besides, for a couple hundred a piece to buy him out you can avoid other problems people seem to develop when money is involved. Good luck.
List it on ebay and see what its worth. You can set the reserve price above 5k and if it only brings 3800 at the end, guess what? The unit is worth that much no matter what you invested into it.
I was in a partnership with my Dad when he retired, and the best way to value items is to sell it at auction. I bought what I thought was worth keeping and the rest hit the highway. He can't say I paid to little or vice versa. Keep it fair and no one can *****.
I was in a partnership with my Dad when he retired, and the best way to value items is to sell it at auction. I bought what I thought was worth keeping and the rest hit the highway. He can't say I paid to little or vice versa. Keep it fair and no one can *****.
Partnerships like this rarely work. Especially so if there are no ground rules set beforehand (ideally binding). That being said, if you can afford it, buy him out and keep it between you three. One less person to worry about!
I see no reason for you to sell the whole setup just because one guy wants out. I think that's a foolish idea. Then what do you guys have? Nothing!
I see no reason for you to sell the whole setup just because one guy wants out. I think that's a foolish idea. Then what do you guys have? Nothing!
wildwest450
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Cut it all in to quarters with a plasma torch, let him sell off his quarter.
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A similar deal happened with a friend who bought a whitewater raft with a another guy. The one guy demanded a buyout, the other guy tried to lowball him with depreciation and they are no longer friends as a legal battle ensued for the cost of the raft, costing both parties a schit-ton of legal fees far in excess of the cost of the 4400 dollar raft.
Moral of the story? Don't buy into things with partners.
Moral of the story? Don't buy into things with partners.
Germelli1
Well-Known Member
I love how everyone is saying "You shouldn't have done it in the first place." That is really helpful to the OP!
He'll be fine no matter what happens. Worst case he's out 333 bucks and his friends are as well.
It's not like he's in prison being raped by a 400 pound felon or anything. It could be WAY worse.
It's not like he's in prison being raped by a 400 pound felon or anything. It could be WAY worse.
stevedasleeve
Well-Known Member
Interesting bunch of responses - are you all lawyers by any chance?!
Me I would find it really easy. It's an opportunity to do a nice thing for someone. I'd offer him 1/3 of the original price back.
Me I would find it really easy. It's an opportunity to do a nice thing for someone. I'd offer him 1/3 of the original price back.
I don't think selling it is foolish at all. Who's got that kind of money laying around these days? And staying away from partnerships with friends & family is just common sense to me. You never know what'll happen. The quickest way to turn a friend into an enemy is to live with them.
Nice cleanup there.
I think offering up $900 due to depreciation is fair, each remaining partner pays in $100 a month for the next three months. In the mean time, draft up a simple written agreement between the remaining three where if anyone else wants out they can initiate a sell process but as the person who initiates, they have to take a 20% penalty.
You put it on Ebay to establish the fair value and it doesn't mean that the remaining partners can't join together for a new partnership and buy out the third but it will be at fair value. In fact, they can establish the amount they'd be willing to pay up just by setting the reserve to that amount.
I think offering up $900 due to depreciation is fair, each remaining partner pays in $100 a month for the next three months. In the mean time, draft up a simple written agreement between the remaining three where if anyone else wants out they can initiate a sell process but as the person who initiates, they have to take a 20% penalty.
You put it on Ebay to establish the fair value and it doesn't mean that the remaining partners can't join together for a new partnership and buy out the third but it will be at fair value. In fact, they can establish the amount they'd be willing to pay up just by setting the reserve to that amount.
JonK331
Well-Known Member
So why is the guy opting out? Seriously, that would make a huge difference to me. If he's in dire straights or moving or something I'd be more likely to help. If he's just being snotty, it's a different story. How often to you guys brew? did the three of you end up brewing without the other guy or does he not have time for it???? More info please.
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
I've heard a couple people say "it sure is a lot of money for you to have to cough up". How hard is it really to produce a few hundred dollars? You guys had to come up with several thousand dollars to buy the equipment. And furthermore... if it had ended up being just the 3 of you and not the 4th fellow from the beginning, would you have purchased downsized equipment? Probably not.
King of Cascade
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I don’t understand why some are bringing up “fair market value” when you need to put it on the market and sell it to get fair market value. Remember, the system is only worth what someone will pay for it. That is why you need to sell it to be fair for all parties.
wildwest450
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Pivzavod
Well-Known Member
Bingo! I was going to say the same thing.
Tell him to find someone to buy him out. He can sell it to whoever he wants for as much as he wants. If he still insists on money you can be a gentleman and offer him 50% the current value of his share. Since you have no prior agreement for exit plans none of you are obligated to do one thing or another. You have a gentleman agreement and a handshake.
If the guy is still being a ****** tell him to GFH
PS. If he is out of the deal dont let him brew on your system again.
JonK331
Well-Known Member
Jayman931
Well-Known Member
You mean Feebay.....you know how much in fees you would lose...
ReverseApacheMaster
Well-Known Member
Some of you people are rather harsh to your friends.
This guy doesn't deserve lose his investment in the equipment any more than the other three deserve to be enriched with an extra portion of ownership -- and the resulting value -- because he wants out.
This guy doesn't deserve lose his investment in the equipment any more than the other three deserve to be enriched with an extra portion of ownership -- and the resulting value -- because he wants out.
King of Cascade
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So, who wants out? the pub owner or one of the others? Is the pub owner using this as a pilot system? After reading this thread I think the pub owner should buy out the 4th person if he is using it to do test batches.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/pub-brewery-oportunity-201214/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/pub-brewery-oportunity-201214/
erikhild59
Well-Known Member
makomachine said:
Id consider brewing with a ******, if it could hold 15 lbs of grain!
dobeluvr
Well-Known Member
if friends then "there's no buyout, but you still own 25% when you want to start brewing again." why should a friend have to fork over cash because one changes their mind...If he was having hard times, i'd give him the cash before i'd buy him out, cuz thats what friends do
if business, buy him out
if business, buy him out
What? Let's say instead of buying brewing equipment, you go in with your friend on a new car that you plan to share. You both put in $20k and get a brand new Lexus.
You both drive this car on alternating weeks for ten years. So now it's 2021 and your friend says, "hey man I am moving to China, I need you to buy out my $20k in the Lexus". Are you seriously going to give your friend $20k for half of a ten year old car?
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
weirdboy said:
I just used the car illustration. The depreciation on a car is completely different than on brewing equipment.
And you are getting a WAY better deal on your Lexus's than I am...
But it doesn't matter, it still depreciates. Your brewing system is not worth nearly as much after you've used it even once.
If this was brought to a small claims court, sans lawyers, hands down the judge would say 1/4 of the depreciated value. Absent extenuating circumstances that the OP has yet to offer, that's the most fair resolution for all involved parties. Could one of the parties produce a lawyer who could present an effective argument different than that? Probably, but that would require more money to pay lawyers.
If he doesn't agree to a depreciated value, I can't think of any other fair options. If he's in dire straits and a real friend, then how about you guys offer him a loan and he gets to keep his share? If one of my good friends was going to leave a partnership because of some short term need, I would rather lend him the money (if this is feasible), then break the partnership completely.
If he doesn't agree to a depreciated value, I can't think of any other fair options. If he's in dire straits and a real friend, then how about you guys offer him a loan and he gets to keep his share? If one of my good friends was going to leave a partnership because of some short term need, I would rather lend him the money (if this is feasible), then break the partnership completely.
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
weirdboy said:
Exactly. The fact that its used once, or a thousand times makes no difference on the resale value as long as it doesn't show obvious signs of wear and tear. MLTs don't have odometers.
I agree that if the equipment was in use for some time, and the guy benefitted from using it many times, he should be willing to accept less than what he paid for it.
But we still haven't been told what his circumstances for leaving were, and to me personally that counts for a lot.
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
Airborneguy said:
+1. Money comes and goes, but someone who is willing to put up with an a-hole like me is something special
I didn't like you at first either, but you've settled in to "that forum" quite nicely.
We need more info here or its a waste of time. But this really is an interesting situation to discuss.
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
Most people hate me at first, but end up just strongly disliking me
I agree there is not enough info to make a call. And we are hearing one side (and very little of that). Since the OP isn't offering much detail can be telling.
-Who keeps the setup at their place?
-Did some of the owners use it when the person who wants out wasn't involved? Did they use grains and hops that were supposedly to be shared?
-Is one owner the kind of guy that has to make all the decisions? Has this been an issue with the guy wanting out? (been down this road and is why I don't tourney bassfish anymore.)
-25 gallons. How are you splitting it? Is it a kegging system that is kept at one owners place? So he has to g o over to get to drink? Is he the farthest from the joint storage?
- are one or more of the other owners greedy lushes drinking way more than their fourth? Are they giving it away more than their share?
-Who keeps the setup at their place?
-Did some of the owners use it when the person who wants out wasn't involved? Did they use grains and hops that were supposedly to be shared?
-Is one owner the kind of guy that has to make all the decisions? Has this been an issue with the guy wanting out? (been down this road and is why I don't tourney bassfish anymore.)
-25 gallons. How are you splitting it? Is it a kegging system that is kept at one owners place? So he has to g o over to get to drink? Is he the farthest from the joint storage?
- are one or more of the other owners greedy lushes drinking way more than their fourth? Are they giving it away more than their share?
if no pre-nups, then let him know he's welcome to drink some brew whenever he wants. alternately, you could offer to split it in quarters and see if he jumps when the axe starts to split it...
Vance71975
Well-Known Member
I Agree with this post, If you all four went in on it with the good faith that you were going to keep brewing, i would NOT give him any money, i would simply explain that the 3 remaining still plan on brewing, he is welcome to come over and help and still get some beer HERE AND THERE, but you will not give him any cash UNLESS everyone else also decides to stop brewing, then the set up will be sold and the proceeds divided 4 ways.That is really the only fair solution. After all HE is the one deciding to quit, not the other 3, so the other three should NOT be expected to refund his investment just because he is flaking out. Just tell him his share is still his share and if he wants to brew he is welcome to, but no cash until everyone quits and the unit is sold. And if you do give him any money, i wouldn't give him over 500 total, due to 2 years of use and abuse on the system. Hell when you buy a brand new car the value drops almost in half just driving it one block from the lot, let along the deprecation over 2 years of use!
Also Yes even brewing systems lose value after being used, i have seen 5k sabco set ups that were used sell for as low as 750 bucks, and as high as 3k, it depends on how much it was used, how well cared for the system is, and the present economy also lowers or raises resale value, and in todays economy that = lowers. Like i said i would offer him 500 IF you feel he is owed a buy out but no more than that after 2 years use in a ****ty economy.
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