Building a Starter or Overpitching yeast?

[redrocker652002]

I have seen these terms used quite a bit lately and wondering exactly what they mean? I have only done one started and it did not work out so I have been using dry yeast. As I have said in other posts, I am starting to look at ways to reuse the yeast in the fermenting bucket after I keg or bottle. My understanding is simply, swirl the sediment, split into about 3 or 4 mason jars and refrigerate. If done properly and sanitary, this should be ok to pitch into the next batch and should last a month or so in the fridge? Or do I need to make a starter with this before pitching? Like I said, I am just starting to do some research and I have not used the search function. Just looking for opinions from you folks on how you do it. I have printed the write up about storing in tubes, so that is on the "need to read" list. Thanks in advance.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Overpitching is pitching a cell count over the recommended cell count.

Overbuilding a starter is making a larger starter than you need, pitching the recommended amount, storing the rest for a subsequent batch.

Harvesting is saving some yeast from a previous batch. Top cropping takes it from the thick krausen or barm of an active fermentation. Or you can harvest from the cake of a finished batch.

Whether you should build a starter with the harvested yeast depends on cell count and viability largely related to sample quality, age, storage condition, etc.

With the British strains I use, open fermented in a bucket, top cropping has been very successful and easy.

 

[Dland]

The most solid portion of sediment is not necessarily the best part to save when saving yeast, as it will contain trub and dead yeast cells. The slurry above it should have plenty of live yeast and not the extra baggage.

If you use some beer while fermentation still going the yeast will take off pretty quickly.

I don't try to save yeast cake myself, I just add fresh wort to yeast cake soon after racking previous batch. How long one can wait until adding fresh wort seems to depend on yeast type and most importantly temp fermentor is kept at between brews. Cold lager yeast cakes can last up to two weeks, while somewhat warmer ale yeasts loose viability if a few days.

This all works easily if one has a fermentor with bottom dump. If using a brew bucket or similar vessle, just save the cloudier pint or quart that comes out at end of racking.

I realize this is not really advise for saving yeast, but it is process where I have gotten up to 11 batches with one pitch of dry yeast. Most often I do 3-6 batch runs. This method does require fairly frequent brewing while using the same pitch of yeast.

While I don't do this myself, those who save slurry for longer periods in refidgerator have to build up starters before they pitch because the viability of saved yeasts is lower. The longer it is saved, the lower the viability.

 

[wdavis2003]

I don't try to save yeast cake myself, I just add fresh wort to yeast cake soon after racking previous batch. How long one can wait until adding fresh wort seems to depend on yeast type and most importantly temp fermentor is kept at between brews. Cold lager yeast cakes can last up to two weeks, while somewhat warmer ale yeasts loose viability if a few days.

I racked my lager in June and brewed again in October and pitched directly on top of the June batches yeast cake (lager). Took about 6 hours longer to get started but it fermented great and tastes good so far.

Side note: I left the yeast cake under pressure at lager temps in my ferm chamber the entire time. That may have extended it's longevity.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

If done properly and sanitary, this should be ok to pitch into the next batch and should last a month or so in the fridge? Or do I need to make a starter with this before pitching?

I have had good luck pitching a jar of 1 month old slurry into a batch. If it goes much beyond that, I will toss it into a vitality starter to at least make sure the yeast looks viable and to ensure I am pitching healthy yeast. Though in general, a starter is never a bad idea.

 

[Dland]

I racked my lager in June and brewed again in October and pitched directly on top of the June batches yeast cake (lager). Took about 6 hours longer to get started but it fermented great and tastes good so far.

Side note: I left the yeast cake under pressure at lager temps in my ferm chamber the entire time. That may have extended it's longevity.

That's good to know, but I probably would not wait such a long interval myself, Brewing 10 gallons of wort takes enough time that I would not risk it. Besides, I like to switch out yeast varieties from time to time.

Most of the time I unseal fermentor after a long run, it looks and smells like I could have kept on going. Once in a while however there is a trace of grey in the top dried krausen ring that looks like beginning of something I don't want living in my fermentor.

I believe the cool temps are a factor in prolonged viability with no infections. I can't recall ever having any sign of bacteria or mold in cold lager runs , only in ale fermentations run at higher temps.

 

[Jeroen79]

Saving the slurry in the refrigerator and reusing it is pretty easy, but if it has been stored for more then a month i would recommend making a starter of it.

 

[user 341102]

Washing the yeast is also a consideration. Like Dland said, the solid trub isn't going to have as much viable yeast. So, when saving the cake in a Mason jar, give it a few minutes to settle. Then, dump the liquid into a clean jar and discard the solid portion. You can rinse with boiled (and chilled) water to wash the yeast. I've successfully reused yeast after 3-4 months in the fridge, but always build a starter. Currently, I freeze yeast with 10% food grade glycerol. It's definitely worth it.

the biggest difficulty is determining accurate cell count and viability without a microscope. There are some online calculators for this, of course

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Washing the yeast is also a consideration.

This post convinced me to stop rinsing my yeast and I have never gone back:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/simple-yeast-storage-procedure-with-photos.579350/

 

[user 341102]

This post convinced me to stop rinsing my yeast and I have never gone back:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/simple-yeast-storage-procedure-with-photos.579350/

Interesting post. I’ve done both rinse and no rinse for these reasons (and the obvious laziness/not having sterile water on hand). I’ve never noticed a substantial change in either direction (in terms of floccuation, imfection, or otherwise). Sometimes, I get the impression we intentionally overcomplicate brewing. Rinse or no rinse, if you pitch healthy yeast at the right rate, you’ll get a good fermentation. No rinse is certainly easier, though. Find a technique that works for you

 

[AmarikinBrew]

Over pitching I used to do as a newbie. It had some consequences. Either the crowded yeast takes off and works together really well rendering a DRY over attenuated beer, OR competes for a life threatening situation and makes unwanted taste not intended.
Very few times did it work out as intended.
Good thinking here, Padawan, to avoid that situation in the 1st place.
Drink well, very good beer, soon Hummm?