Buying/Installing Windows in my house

[ColoradoXJ13]

Hey all,

Figure there are some pretty handy people on the board, nobody I know in real life is at all useful in this respect.

The windows in my townhouse suck, sitting too close to one in winter results in frostbite, this has got to be costing me a fortune. Maybe it is time to install some modern, efficient windows and replace those ones made in 1978.

Now I am decently handy, I can not only do molecular biology (real job), but I also finished my basement (framing, drywall, etc) and tiled a bunch of floors/fireplaces. I figure I can probably handle windows, but I have no idea where to start.

I measured my existing windows, they are all completely different sizes, so I assume I need to buy custom made windows for this. They also need to be the same color as the original windows (on the outside part, dark brown, to match all the others in the complex due to HOA rules). Where would I go about buying these sorts of things? What should I be expecting to spend? The existing windows are aluminum frame, what should I replace them with?

Also, how hard is it to install these things? Do I need any really special tools that a normal handy person (like myself) wouldn't own? How long should this take (i.e. how long does my dog need to be kenneled so he doesn't jump out the open holes in my wall and chase cats/squirrels?

Thanks in advance!

 

[the_bird]

I'm a handy guy, but I didn't do my own windows. Had them replaced three years ago. If I were doing them myself, I'd probably have them done right about now. More power to you if you do it yourself, but for a job like this - I had thirteen (maybe fourteen) windows replaced, two-story house.... they were there at 8:30 in the morning and all done and all cleaned up by 4:00 that afternoon. Amazing how quick three or four guys who know what they're doing can do this project. It was right around this time of year, too, so I didn't want the house open for any longer than necessary. Older house, so they had come in before and meaured everything and had custom windows built.

Just one of those projects where I'm actually glad that I paid someone else to do it. Total cost was ~$6k or so, I figure I probably could have done it for a few grand less but having it DONE, quickly and well, was well worth it.

 

[Bobby_M]

Unfortunately though, replacement windows and the labor rates these guys get has to be the biggest markup in home improvement land. The price for the replacements is going to vary based on whether they are standard size (in stock at Lowes etc), standard but special order (in stock at Lowes' distributor), or custom size/special order (made to order).

With the requirement for brown exterior, I think you're going to be at least the second one.

Do you have the ones that have two sashes that slide up and down or are they crank out?

If it's the former (called double hung), the inside and center stops get removed along with the sashes, then the replacement unit is slid in from the inside against the exterior stop. The cool thing about DIY on this is that you don't have to get all the windows done in a day. One at a time, on your time.

Pictures?

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Getting the old windows out is harder (provided they had a builders flange) than installing the new windows.

Timidity would prompt one to go with an easy going and mythodical approach but, in reality if you've ever seen it done, you just remove the sashes and rip the frames out with a crowbar and a big hammer.

 

[the_bird]

Mine were in such bad shape (single pane, snow literally blowing into the house) where they needed to get done before winter hit. I probably saved half the install-markup just in heating oil during that first winter.

 

[Bobby_M]

Bird, agreed. Everyone's urgency is slightly different.

Gila... That's if removing the frames is necessary. I'd say replacement windows is a far easier DIY solution if the current frames are in good shape as it leaves all the external brickmold untouched (especially important if it's aluminum wrapped) and the HOA's precious siding unharmed.

 

[ColoradoXJ13]

They are not double-hung, all the windows I want to replace are horizontal sliding and must remain so (again HOA).

They are:
1 - about 4'x5'
2 - about 4'x4'
2 - about 2'x2' (one of these is in the basement in a window well, can be whatever damn color I want)
1 - about 3'x3'
1 - sliding glass patio door

I really don't want to (can't) spend $6k, I was hoping closer to $2k. I think I may take super careful measurements, go to Lowes/Home Depot and figure out some estimates on costs. Then have a couple companies come in to get me quotes...see where I am. I don't mind paying to have the job done quickly/right, but if I can save $2000 on installation and spend a few days doing it myself...

I've owned the place for 4 winters so far, so it isn't killing me, but I figure it will make life better and save the environment as well, also making the resale of the house slightly better too...

 

[david_42]

You might be able to find out who makes custom windows locally, not the installers, but the people they buy them from. Two arguments against doing them yourself: time and errors. Installers can do six windows and a patio door in a couple hours. And if there are any mistakes, they eat it.

If I was going to do the job, I'd be inclined to do the door myself, because they are standardized, and pay for the windows, because they aren't. A patio door is an all-day job for two DYIs, but very straight forward. I'd also replace it with french doors, but the HOeAs probably don't allow them.

 

[the_bird]

A friend of mine was just telling me how he replaced his patio door and it was one of the easiest jobs he's done (we kept our old slider when we replaced the windows).

 

[bigdug]

Look at some of the national manufacturers (MW, Pella, Marvin) websites to get some ideas and then get some local quotes. If the windows are in fact a custom size I would either let whoever is selling them to you measure them (if you decide to self install) or buy a complete package installed, especially if buying from a big box store. its one thing to say "oops I got the wrong size" if it is off the shelf, quite another to have a hole in your wall for 3 to 4 weeks wating on a special order size to be made. Chances are with the color restrictions and being sliders it will be a special order anyway. The nationals are more than likley going to cost more, Pellas are not cheap but they are nice windows, but you may have a wider choice in pre finished colors and materials.

And my two cents on the patio door is that the only thing worse than a sliding patio door is a full operating french door set. I have never seen one that would't leak in harsh conditions. I prefer a fixed panel single operating combo. If you have a french door set you never open but one anyway so why have the extra security and weather proofing headache.

 

[Bobby_M]

I don't have any experience with the horizontal sliders, but I would assume you can still remove the track mechanism on top and bottom similar to how you do it on the double hungs. In all cases, I think you're going to be paying a big premium for a window style that is not very common.

Check this page:
http://www.pellaatlowes.com/lowes/TSslidingwindow.asp I think you'd want the series 20.
http://www.pellaatlowes.com/pdf/east/SW_20SZTAB.pdf

 

[srm775]

I've had window's installed on two different houses and here's what I can tell you about if from the experience and from my research.

A) Best to worst types of windows (traditionally): Wood, Vinyl, Aluminium. Wood has good sound insullations, doesn't transmit heat/cold but is expensive and requires more maintenance. Vinyl, pretty much the standard, not as good as wood, but not far off. Aluminum, sucks, don't do it. Requires maintenance and transmit hot/cold.

B) You will never realize the difference in savings between $10,000 windows and $5,000 windows, so you might as well get the cheaper ones. If your windows are really bad (as mine were) your biggest jump in savings will be going from single paned windows to double-paned windows. Triple paned windows offeres only a slight be more savings.

c) There are probably building codes you need to be aware of as well for your windos. Such as: Windows over a certain size or located X number of inches off the floor need to be tampered. Windows in the basement, may need to be entirely removable incase of fire (important).

D) Rule of thumb ... all jobs take twice as long and cost twice as much as estimated. If you think you can get one window done in a day, it'll probably be two days.

 

[ColoradoXJ13]

And my two cents on the patio door is that the only thing worse than a sliding patio door is a full operating french door set. I have never seen one that would't leak in harsh conditions. I prefer a fixed panel single operating combo. If you have a french door set you never open but one anyway so why have the extra security and weather proofing headache.

Well, its not really a patio, it is a small deck off my bedroom, too small to have the doors open outward, and not enough space in the room for them to swing inward. I'll be going with a sliding door, one side fixed. That is what is there now and it works nicely (except for the cold air coming in and the janky screen that falls off the track constantly).

 

[jmendez29]

Unfortunately though, replacement windows and the labor rates these guys get has to be the biggest markup in home improvement land. The price for the replacements is going to vary based on whether they are standard size (in stock at Lowes etc), standard but special order (in stock at Lowes' distributor), or custom size/special order (made to order).

I'd have to disagree with you on this one. It may be different in other places in the country, but I found this to not be the case at my home improvement store. As it turns out, the difference in price between the in stock windows (which I own none of, not even close) and the made to order windows was about $10 each. I only replaced two window in this way, and then I found out how much it cost to have someone order and install them for me. I got a contractor who buys his windows locally at a cost much lower than I could get. After installation, it ended up costing me about $260 per window, and ordering them myself would have cost me about $215 each, then having to buy the remaining materials and whatnot. Having them installed also included the aluminum window wrap on the outside and basic trim work on the inside. After the headaches that I ran into trying to install them myself, I couldn't pass up that deal. Plus, I liked the idea that I was supporting a local business.

 

[bigdug]

(except for the cold air coming in and the janky screen that falls off the track constantly).

That is 2 of my bigest complaints with the sliding doors, that and security, but that is helped by a 1x3 layed on the track behind the slider.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I have not done replacement windows, I am just replacing with full original installation windows. However, my main tip is to make sure you have a competent person ordering the windows for you and double/triple check the order before it gets placed and again before you pay for it. The first window I bought, I figured the guy helping me knew what he was doing.... wrong.

I got home and hoisted the window up the the second story... holy shat! The window is bigger than the opening! A demolished and trayed ceiling later, our master bedroom has 10' ceilings and a big azz window.

A pneumatic nailer makes everything easier, along with a good level, and some attention to detail.

 

[menschmaschine]

I've done a lot of research on windows and windows installation. I've done construction estimating for windows, construction management of windows installation, and have done the work myself recently on my shed build, which I wrote a thread on how to properly install windows.

One thing to keep in mind is that a large portion of heat exchange can be occuring between the window frame and the rough opening (studs). If your windows are as leaky (air) and old as you suggest, your best bet is to get new complete windows (not "replacement" windows).

I don't know if $2000 is realistic, but it depends on how many windows and what sizes you need. Custom windows are VERY expensive over their standard counterparts.

Here's what I would do in your situation:

See if you can find the window manufacturer of the current windows you have. Research their website and find the different styles and sizes and try to match them to what you have (hopefully they aren't custom). Once you find your exact windows, you can download specs to find the rough-opening size for each type of window. If you can't find your current windows, there are other ways to find your rough-opening sizes without tearing too much apart.

Knowing your rough-openings, you can research other window manufacturers rough-opening requirements. With any luck, you might find windows that are close matches to what you have that are standard and not custom made. Here's an example of where to look: Andersen 200 Series Gliding Windows (no, I don't work for Andersen.) It may even be cheaper to adjust rough opening sizes yourself than to buy custom windows.

Once you find the windows and sizes you need, you can go to a local building supplier that carries that particular manufacturer of windows. Forget the big box stores. You can get just as good, if not better pricing from a local building supplier and will be able to deal with much more knowledgeable staff.

Replacing all of these windows is a big job, I won't lie to you, but it is still do-able by the average homeowner with half a head on their shoulders. What is your building veneer (siding, brick, stucco, stone veneer, etc.)? Give me some more info and/or take a few pictures inside and out... and I can walk you through the steps. There are a few pitfalls to look out for and if you find that your windows have leaked more than air (i.e., water), this could turn into a big job. Also, you'll need to buy much more than just the windows. You'll need flashing tape, flex-wrap, drip-caps (preferred), nails, a few tools, plenty of caulk (polyurethane preferred), shims, etc.

But you can probably pick at these... do a few a weekend until they're done. And once you get in the groove, it can go fairly smoothly.

 

[kornkob]

Having them installed also included the aluminum window wrap on the outside

Best part about our new windows is the alum cladding on the exterior trim--- It's a LOT easier to check the caulk once a year (and add some when needed every few) than touch up the paint every couple years.

The 8 windows we had replaced cost around $5500 and included a bay window in the front. HUGE difference and I am so glad I let them deal with it.