Confused about Batch Sparging

[Tand]

Hi everyone! I'm doing my first all grain brew this week - going for BierMuncher's Centennial Blonde,but, despite lots of reading I'm unsure about how to go about Batch Sparging.
I've worked out that for my grain bill of 8.90lb, I'll need 2.76 gallons of water for the mash, but I'm completely lost at working out the volume and process of batch Sparging.
Could anyone tell me how much (batch) sparge water I need, and at what temperature?
Cheers.

 

[kh54s10]

Didn't check your mash amount but it should be between 1.25 and 1.5 quarts per pound of grain. Then the batch sparge is easy. Though you do need to know your boil off rate. Measure how much wort you got from the mash. Then sparge with enough to get to your preboil amount.

I have a dip stick that I made by pouring a gallon of water into my boil kettle, making a mark on the stick, add a gallon, repeat.

I boil off 2 gallons per hour so for a little over 5 gallons into the fermenter I need a little over 7 gallons, mash and sparge, for the preboil amount.

I use Beersmith for my recipes and water amounts but I really ignore it for the sparge amounts....

 

[Chanoc]

What's the size of your batch?
How long are you planning to boil?
Temperature may be anything you want, higher sparging temps shorten the time you have to wait to achieve a rolling boil.
a common temp used is 180°F.
HTH

 

[kh54s10]

Sparge temperature is not critical. You are really, just rinsing the sugars out of the grain husks. You really don't want to get the grain much higher than 170 degrees with the sparge water. I have always used about 168 -170.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

On my partial mash brews I have always sprinkled hot water above my grain in a brew sock in a colander above my wort. If understand correctly, batch sparging for me would look like taking my sock and dunking it in fresh hot water and then adding that to my wort, squeeze repeat, squeeze repeat.

 

[Tand]

What's the size of your batch?
How long are you planning to boil?
Temperature may be anything you want, higher sparging temps shorten the time you have to wait to achieve a rolling boil.
a common temp used is 180°F.
HTH

Batch size is 5.5 Gal, with a 60 minute boil.

 

[kh54s10]

So you need to work backward from your 5.5 gallon to fermenter amount. I would need to get a little over 7.5 gallons from the mash and sparge to end up with that amount into the fermenter. If you don't know your boil off rate, you can get somewhat close, then adjust for subsequent batches.

 

[beergolf]

Easiest way. Figure out the amount you need to account for boil off. I boil off about 1 1/2 gallons per hour. So I know I need 6.5 gallons for 5 gallons in the fermenter. For reall hoppy beers I add some to account for loss.


So for example if I start with 4 gallons for the mash and run off 3 gallons (just an example to make it easy) The mash will keep some water for grain absorbsion and dead space. Since those are already covered, then the sparge will be the amount that you need to reach your total volume you need to start the boil. So if I ran off 3 gallons, and I need 6.5 gallons then I have to sparge with 3.5 gallons, to reach the required amount.

Easy.

 

[brewbama]

Read dennybrew.com it'll explain it all. I usually use 1.65 qts/lb strike water to grain or even more to even out the strike and batch sparge.

 

[mongoose33]

I brewed today. Mashed in with 4 gallons. I had about 11 1/2 pounds of grain bill. I pulled off 2.375 gallons in first runnings. I could have had a bit more if I'd been more patient but I also could have put in my batch sparge water and gotten that going--which I did.

Once my first runnings slowed to a trickle, I closed the valve and added another 4.5 gallons. I pulled off nearly the entire 4.5 gallons (whatever the grain absorbs is done in the first mash), which had me almost to 7 gallons. I boiled down to about 5.5, and into the fermenter.

The first time you do this, take careful note of how much you mash in with, and what you draw off as first runnings. Note the size of the grain bill, and you'll have a better idea what you can expect.

I really had a bit too much wort in the kettle; in fact, I tossed a quart of wort away because....well, because. Perhaps next time I'll just sparge with 4 gallons (not 4.5) and be more patient at the end. Ended up at an OG of 1.061. Would have been a point or two higher if I'd somehow captured the sugar in what I threw away.

 

[55x11]

Hi everyone! I'm doing my first all grain brew this week - going for BierMuncher's Centennial Blonde,but, despite lots of reading I'm unsure about how to go about Batch Sparging.
I've worked out that for my grain bill of 8.90lb, I'll need 2.76 gallons of water for the mash, but I'm completely lost at working out the volume and process of batch Sparging.
Could anyone tell me how much (batch) sparge water I need, and at what temperature?
Cheers.

I am sorry to be a little critical but this is sort of basic question that even if you get a numeric answer this time, you will be back again for next brew asking the same thing. So instead of telling you exact number (which would be easy but not very helpful in the long run), I would advise you to:

1. Read some basic books that cover all-grain techniques

2. Use a brewing software, like brewsmith.

3. Do a few brews and see how it works out, then think about it and iterate.

 

[madscientist451]

I could provide a real complicated answer but here is a short simple solution. For 5.5 gallons to the fermenter figure on using 9 gallons of water:
1+ gallon absorption
2 gallons boil off
1/2 gallon waste/trub or whatever
5.5 gallons of wort
=5.5 gallons to the fermenter
So figure your weight of grain, your recipe calls for 8.75 lbs.
Multiply 8.75 x 1.5 qts/lb = 13.125 quarts, round it off to 3 gallons + 1 qt. Or make it even easier and just use 4 gallons for the mash.
Use an online mash calculator to figure your strike temperature. While mash is going on heat up the rest of the water to about 190-195F and batch sparge or fly sparge, when mash is done. I run off very slow, but some brewers say it doesn't really matter. It may seem like a lot to think about, but after you brew a few times and figure out the boiloff and waste rate of your system, it will be real easy. Good Luck.

 

[psujeeperman02]

I could provide a real complicated answer but here is a short simple solution. For 5.5 gallons to the fermenter figure on using 9 gallons of water:
1+ gallon absorption
2 gallons boil off
1/2 gallon waste/trub or whatever
5.5 gallons of wort
=5.5 gallons to the fermenter
So figure your weight of grain, your recipe calls for 8.75 lbs.
Multiply 8.75 x 1.5 qts/lb = 13.125 quarts, round it off to 3 gallons + 1 qt. Or make it even easier and just use 4 gallons for the mash.
Use an online mash calculator to figure your strike temperature. While mash is going on heat up the rest of the water to about 190-195F and batch sparge or fly sparge, when mash is done. I run off very slow, but some brewers say it doesn't really matter. It may seem like a lot to think about, but after you brew a few times and figure out the boiloff and waste rate of your system, it will be real easy. Good Luck.

This may be on topic, but today I brewed a Pale ale. I didnt account for so much of the evaporation in the boil, so I am left with 4 gallons in my fermenter instead of my 5 that I was shooting for.
OK to add sterile water tonight before prime fermentation occurs to get to my 5gal mark?

 

[kh54s10]

This may be on topic, but today I brewed a Pale ale. I didnt account for so much of the evaporation in the boil, so I am left with 4 gallons in my fermenter instead of my 5 that I was shooting for.
OK to add sterile water tonight before prime fermentation occurs to get to my 5gal mark?

With the extra boil off, did you get a higher OG than wanted? If so you can add water to get to the volume you want. If not you have a different problem and you will get a weaker beer if you add the water.

 

[kh54s10]

My take on this again. Is don't worry about the exact volumes in the mash and sparges. You will need to know your boil off rate and then you can collect enough wort, preboil, by sparging with more or less water until you have what you need to end up with the right amount after the boil.

Forget what the calculator says. Every rig is going to be a little different.

 

[Chanoc]

My take on this again. Is don't worry about the exact volumes in the mash and sparges. You will need to know your boil off rate and then you can collect enough wort, preboil, by sparging with more or less water until you have what you need to end up with the right amount after the boil.

Forget what the calculator says. Every rig is going to be a little different.

Sorry to get back to the thread so late...
This was the reasoning to my original answer...
You'd want to know how much water you lose in grain absorption, dead volume of your mash tun aand boil off...
Your strike water + sparge water should be the total water you'll use...

 

[psujeeperman02]

With the extra boil off, did you get a higher OG than wanted? If so you can add water to get to the volume you want. If not you have a different problem and you will get a weaker beer if you add the water.

I was expecting about 1.048....but measured 1.049.
Im wondering if it's worth just letting it be and worrying about it next batch.

 

[mongoose33]

I was expecting about 1.048....but measured 1.049.
Im wondering if it's worth just letting it be and worrying about it next batch.

You're off by a single point and you're whining about it?

 

[psujeeperman02]

Not whining....problem was that after finishing brew day..fermenter reads 4 gallons. I'm wondering if I can add water now (to make 5gals) without ruining the beer.

 

[Happywanderer]

Since nobody posted the link yet ...

For future use, just use this website: http://www.brew365.com/mash_sparge_water_calculator.php

It will make your life a TON easier.

Of course - read up on sparging and all at howtobrew or dennybrew ... The more you know the better...

 

[Happywanderer]

Also - as to your question/issue on OG.

If you were expecting 1.048 with 5gal batch and you got 1.049 with only 4gal - adding a gallon of water will lead to a much smaller beer (lower ABV) than you were expecting.

This means your efficiency is low.

Post up your process in painstaking detail and we'll help tweak it so you can get your efficiency up.

And yes - read all of howtobrew ... the all grain section.

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

If you dilute your 1.049gravity at 4 gallons to 5 gallons your gravity will be 1.039 like said above. Considerably less than preferred. I'd leave it and chalk it up as a learning lesson. Next time sparge with an additional gallon and be sure to stir your sparge and grains like it owes you money. Should also help bring your efficiency up some.

 

[psujeeperman02]

Also - as to your question/issue on OG.

If you were expecting 1.048 with 5gal batch and you got 1.049 with only 4gal - adding a gallon of water will lead to a much smaller beer (lower ABV) than you were expecting.

This means your efficiency is low.

Post up your process in painstaking detail and we'll help tweak it so you can get your efficiency up.

And yes - read all of howtobrew ... the all grain section.

As far as my process goes for this batch, the main thing that I changed this time around was trying a batch sparge instead of fly sparge.


I went from fly sparging and gave batch sparging a try for my first time. I can't say why, since I normally get within a few points of my OG...but I wanted to give it a whirl. I seemed to have miscalculated how much sparge water I needed for the batch sparge.
I didnt, and maybe it shouldnt change how much water needs to be heated for sparging depending on whether you do a fly or batch sparge.

 

[Tand]

I am sorry to be a little critical but this is sort of basic question that even if you get a numeric answer this time, you will be back again for next brew asking the same thing. So instead of telling you exact number (which would be easy but not very helpful in the long run), I would advise you to:

1. Read some basic books that cover all-grain techniques

2. Use a brewing software, like brewsmith.

3. Do a few brews and see how it works out, then think about it and iterate.

My take on this again. Is don't worry about the exact volumes in the mash and sparges. You will need to know your boil off rate and then you can collect enough wort, preboil, by sparging with more or less water until you have what you need to end up with the right amount after the boil.

Forget what the calculator says. Every rig is going to be a little different.

So! I have done some further research and come up with some figures, just want to know if they're OK...
An issue I do have is that I haven't yet done an hour boil to get my boil off rate, I could do this before I brew if it would really help.

So with 8.90 lb of grain, with a ratio of 1.25:1 qt/lb, that gives me a strike water volume of 11.125 quarts (2.8 US gallons, 10.6 Liters).
Using the suggestion of .1gal/lb absorption, that suggests that the mash will absorb .90 gallons of water, leaving me with 1.9 US gallons from first runnings.
Should i then batch sparge, maybe twice, with a total of 5 US gallons of water in order to reach a preboil volume of 7 Gallons?
From what I read on Denny's website, I would perform the hour mash and vorlauf, and then before draining, add 2.5 US Gallons, stir, and drain completely, add the next 2.5 US gallons stir and drain, and then get on with the boil. Does this sound reasonable or have I made a big mistake somewhere?!
Cheers

 

[mongoose33]

So! I have done some further research and come up with some figures, just want to know if they're OK...
An issue I do have is that I haven't yet done an hour boil to get my boil off rate, I could do this before I brew if it would really help.

So with 8.90 lb of grain, with a ratio of 1.25:1 qt/lb, that gives me a strike water volume of 11.125 quarts (2.8 US gallons, 10.6 Liters).
Using the suggestion of .1gal/lb absorption, that suggests that the mash will absorb .90 gallons of water, leaving me with 1.9 US gallons from first runnings.
Should i then batch sparge, maybe twice, with a total of 5 US gallons of water in order to reach a preboil volume of 7 Gallons?
From what I read on Denny's website, I would perform the hour mash and vorlauf, and then before draining, add 2.5 US Gallons, stir, and drain completely, add the next 2.5 US gallons stir and drain, and then get on with the boil. Does this sound reasonable or have I made a big mistake somewhere?!
Cheers

I think that will be fine. I used 8.5 gallons yesterday with an 11-pound grain bill and it was a bit too much--I could have done 8 gallons and been fine. So your 7.8 gallons with almost 9 pounds of grain sounds spot on. It somewhat depends on your boil-off rate, but you should be ok.

BTW, I wouldn't do two different batch sparges unless you have extra time on your hands. I'd just dump the sparge water in, stir it around, and draw off the second runnings.

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

Should i then batch sparge, maybe twice, with a total of 5 US gallons of water in order to reach a preboil volume of 7 Gallons?

From what I read on Denny's website, I would perform the hour mash and vorlauf, and then before draining, add 2.5 US Gallons, stir, and drain completely, add the next 2.5 US gallons stir and drain, and then get on with the boil. Does this sound reasonable or have I made a big mistake somewhere?!

Cheers

You'd want to do your hour mash. Then drain completely. Then add your first sparge addition, stir like it owes you money, vorlauf, drain, repeat.

 

[kh54s10]

So! I have done some further research and come up with some figures, just want to know if they're OK...
An issue I do have is that I haven't yet done an hour boil to get my boil off rate, I could do this before I brew if it would really help.

So with 8.90 lb of grain, with a ratio of 1.25:1 qt/lb, that gives me a strike water volume of 11.125 quarts (2.8 US gallons, 10.6 Liters).
Using the suggestion of .1gal/lb absorption, that suggests that the mash will absorb .90 gallons of water, leaving me with 1.9 US gallons from first runnings.
Should i then batch sparge, maybe twice, with a total of 5 US gallons of water in order to reach a preboil volume of 7 Gallons?
From what I read on Denny's website, I would perform the hour mash and vorlauf, and then before draining, add 2.5 US Gallons, stir, and drain completely, add the next 2.5 US gallons stir and drain, and then get on with the boil. Does this sound reasonable or have I made a big mistake somewhere?!
Cheers

I don't think you have it right. Mash, vorlauf, drain THEN sparge.

Again, I do not worry too much about what I get from the mash, or even the sparge. What you need to do is get enough volume for your preboil amount.

If you haven't boiled a wort for an hour, and thus do not know your boil off rate, I would use about 1 to 1.5 gallon per hour as a starting point. I have seen some as low as .5 gallons per hour and mine is high at 2 gallons per hour. After a couple of batches you will have a better idea.

 

[bendog15]

Get beersmith.

 

[psujeeperman02]

When batch sparging, it seems that the "rule" is to batch sparge to collect 1st and 2nd runnings.
If, for some reason, your water measurements are off, do you see an issue with collecting 3rd runnings in order to get to your proper preboil volume?

 

[mongoose33]

When batch sparging, it seems that the "rule" is to batch sparge to collect 1st and 2nd runnings.
If, for some reason, your water measurements are off, do you see an issue with collecting 3rd runnings in order to get to your proper preboil volume?

Early on, when I was underestimating the amount of water needed, I was short in what I drew off the mash tun after 2nd runnings. I just sprinkled a few bottles of water (made by RO process) over the grain bed and that water not only made up the volume needed, it rinsed more sugars out of the grain.

My second runnings tend to be at the 1.030 gravity level, maybe a bit more. So there still will be sugar clinging to the grist, and thus you're increasing not only water volume but the amount of sugar that has been captured.

 

[Denny]

So! I have done some further research and come up with some figures, just want to know if they're OK...
An issue I do have is that I haven't yet done an hour boil to get my boil off rate, I could do this before I brew if it would really help.

So with 8.90 lb of grain, with a ratio of 1.25:1 qt/lb, that gives me a strike water volume of 11.125 quarts (2.8 US gallons, 10.6 Liters).
Using the suggestion of .1gal/lb absorption, that suggests that the mash will absorb .90 gallons of water, leaving me with 1.9 US gallons from first runnings.
Should i then batch sparge, maybe twice, with a total of 5 US gallons of water in order to reach a preboil volume of 7 Gallons?
From what I read on Denny's website, I would perform the hour mash and vorlauf, and then before draining, add 2.5 US Gallons, stir, and drain completely, add the next 2.5 US gallons stir and drain, and then get on with the boil. Does this sound reasonable or have I made a big mistake somewhere?!
Cheers

Denny has changed his (my) method since writing that! You know I'm lazy and I decided that extra addition was too much work! Now I mash thinner...usually between 1.65-75 qt./lb. That takes care of having to add extra water. It also increased my efficiency! Then I usually measure how much mash runoff I get in the kettle and subtract that from the amount I want to boil (usually 7-7.5 gal. for a 5 gal. batch). The answer I get is how much sparge water to use. EASY! I heat that sparge water to 185-195F, stir it in, vorlauf and runoff...I don't let it sit before the runoff. Any questions?

 

[Tand]

Denny has changed his (my) method since writing that! You know I'm lazy and I decided that extra addition was too much work! Now I mash thinner...usually between 1.65-75 qt./lb. That takes care of having to add extra water. It also increased my efficiency! Then I usually measure how much mash runoff I get in the kettle and subtract that from the amount I want to boil (usually 7-7.5 gal. for a 5 gal. batch). The answer I get is how much sparge water to use. EASY! I heat that sparge water to 185-195F, stir it in, vorlauf and runoff...I don't let it sit before the runoff. Any questions?

Negative. Brewed last week and it worked beautifully! Think I was seriously over thinking the whole thing.
Thank you to all for the help!!

 

[Denny]

Negative. Brewed last week and it worked beautifully! Think I was seriously over thinking the whole thing.
Thank you to all for the help!!

EVERY time I have taught someone to batch sparge, they look at me when we're done and say "Is that all there is to it?"