Help Me with a Sediment Issue

[Bassman2003]

Hello,

I have started brewing with an Anvil Foundry and have come across an issue with wheat beers. Basically, there is too much mash sediment/particles falling out of the basket which causes the unit to protect itself from scorching and shut down. I do a recirc but the process is not working.

I have attached two photos to show the unit - 1 showing what is there now and 2 showing my idea to help suck up more sediment.

Basically, I want to add more area to the suction capability so the pump can move the sediment off of the burner and up into the mash.

So, after seeing the photos, do you think it will work? Any ideas to improve? Or better approaches?

Thanks for your input!

 

[Jag75]

Do you use rice hulls ?

 

[Bassman2003]

Yes. The rice hulls help with moving the liquid through the mash, but this is outside the mash basket in the boil kettle area.

 

[9Kegs]

Try using a BIAB bag in addition to your basket.

 

[Bassman2003]

Thanks for your replies. The bag helps, but it still does not keep the sediment from accumulating on the bottom. I am really looking for input on the solution approach. If it looks like it might work or not.

 

[augiedoggy]

I'm curious to see if you can resolve this because its been a weakness of the directly heated biab systems regardless of design. I know its the reason brewboss changed to a ULWD element which helped but the flow is still too slow in some situations and this happens due to all the proteins in the wort and Ive yet to see a solution without better filtration at the area where the heating is occuring. its worse when the element is turned off for a period of time then turned back on after proteins settle onto it.

I actually recently changed out the elements in my rims to even lower watt density elements to eliminate this at my brepub.. most beers were fine but those with wheat or oats or other adjuncts whould cause a buildup and sometimes scorched areas regardless of the 4-5gpm measured flow thru the tube so in my case the constant flow over the element did not stop it. Only going to a lower watt density did.
is there a way you can limit the max power output to the heating element in your system while maintaining mash temp? that would solve it.

EDIT another approach would be to start the recirc flow very slowly and over the course of like 5 minutes increase the flow speed very very slowly which should allow the grainbed to "set" in a gently matter and less sediment from being pulled from it.
also what is your recirculation flow rate here? maybe try lowering it overall. you may find it may also help with channeling as well as pulling sediment from the bed.

 

[Bassman2003]

Thanks for your reply. To me, this has always been a problem with BIAB. The issue in this scenario, luckily, is not flow but not being able to move the sediment back into the mash. As shown by the 1st photo, the Foundry has a spigot that works well but is only on one side. So it does not remove but a portion of any sediment that falls through.

My thought is to increase the number of points where sediment can be sucked up and then moved back into the mash. Before I spend the money on buying 5 or 6 SS tee's, I am looking for opinions on if people think this will be effective or not. (Photo #2)

 

[augiedoggy]

Thanks for your reply. To me, this has always been a problem with BIAB. The issue in this scenario, luckily, is not flow but not being able to move the sediment back into the mash. As shown by the 1st photo, the Foundry has a spigot that works well but is only on one side. So it does not remove but a portion of any sediment that falls through.

My thought is to increase the number of points where sediment can be sucked up and then moved back into the mash. Before I spend the money on buying 5 or 6 SS tee's, I am looking for opinions on if people think this will be effective or not. (Photo #2)

I think you will find the sediment will stick to the hot element regardless.. like I was saying above it was sticking to my rims elements even thought the wort was moving rather quickly through the tube until I lowered the watt density.

 

[Bassman2003]

I agree with an exposed element but I my expectation with the Foundry's element under a plate design is that I can get away with a little more. My procedure would be to mash in at the first rest (111F for a hefe) which would give me time to let all of the stuff fall out and start being recirculated before the element even comes on. Then the heat would only be on after a lot of the initial stuff is cleared away. Theory, but that only works if the added Tee's can suck it away.

 

[augiedoggy]

I agree with an exposed element but I my expectation with the Foundry's element under a plate design is that I can get away with a little more. My procedure would be to mash in at the first rest (111F for a hefe) which would give me time to let all of the stuff fall out and start being recirculated before the element even comes on. Then the heat would only be on after a lot of the initial stuff is cleared away. Theory, but that only works if the added Tee's can suck it away.

I am under the impression the foundry is an induction system... The metal plate IS the element. Hopefully im wrong but I do not believe your solution will solve your issue.

 

[Bassman2003]

Here is the blurb from the website:

"The heater itself is an ultra low watt density triple element heater that allows for maximum heat output WITHOUT scorching."

Well it does scorch a little...

Would you have a triple element induction system? Seems like it might not be induction but I am not sure.

 

[Bassman2003]

Ok, then how about this approach:

What if I put a SS plate suspended over the heating element circle? Sort of a deflector shield. It would sit at an angle and stop the sediment from ever landing on the element/heat source. The main concern would be affecting the heat dispersion, hence the angle to let some escape. It would only be the diameter of the heat plate, so there is room all around that would be unrestricted.

 

[Jag75]

I just dont see why it's an issue . I get sediment at the bottom of my Grainfather as well but it doesnt cause any issues. If I were you I'd talk to the manufacturer and ask for a refund . How could they not expect small grain particles to find it's way down there? Maybe you can get a screen for a robobrew or the Grainfather and slide it to the bottom of your basket.

Is your bottom of the basket flush with the housing ? Make sure there aren't any gaps for the grain to spill out.

 

[Bassman2003]

I think this is specific to wheat beers and mashing in at low temps. Sediment is not an issue with barley and I will experiment with brewing a hefe without the low temp dough-in. Just taking a guess, I would say one would also encounter this issue on the Grainfather and others. The liquid looks like milk when you mash in at 111F and the particles stay around. When you mash in at higher temps things solidify pretty quickly and the liquid starts to clear. But, this is why I am posting here. To try and solve the problem.

I would ask - have you brewed a hefe with a 111F dough in on your Grainfather? If not, then how do you know it is not an issue?

 

[Jag75]

What I'm saying is I always have particles on the bottom of my Gf and it doesn't shut off. There will be a brownish area right where the burner is but I clean it off easily after the brew. As for mashing a hefe at 111 , I dont do it . I do a single mash @150. I suspect you want that Cloveness to your hefe . I like mine kinda neutral but more on banana side . Your wanting the ferulic acid which you get from mashing that low , is that right?.
You might try mashing in at 130 and see if that helps with the sediment. I've never mashed that low and I never knew mashing that low would cause extra sediment. Learn something new everyday. Good luck with your hefe .

 

[Bassman2003]

Thanks. The main problem is the long temperature rise from 111F all the way to 145F. This keeps the element on for a while which increases the chances of scorching. When one doughs in pretty much at the first rest the element does not need to work hard until that rest is over. If this is a normal sacc. rest then by the time the rest is complete the wort is running clear.

I don't think a low mash-in causes extra sediment, it just forces you to run the element with a lot more sediment in the mix. I might just do an infusion of boiling water (like back in the cooler days) to raise the temp. but would rather operate the unit as intended.

So how about the shield idea?

 

[Jag75]

I dont blame you for wanting it to work how it's intended. If your adamant on coughing in @111 try your shield idea. Wont hurt to try.