Help with Hefe -- STRONG banana flavors

[StudentBrewer]

I just bottled a Hefe brewed with White Labs hefeweizen yeast. I sure hope it mellows out a lot. It has an unbelievably strong banana sweetness too it. Is there anything I can do differently to change the flavor profile while using this yeast? The beer was fermented at 70 F.

Thanks,
Brandon

 

[Dude]

Well, if the temp you recorded was outside the fermenter, the actual ferment temp was probably closer to 75° then. Try to cool down your ferment temps and that strong banana/clove won't be as evident.

I think the longer you let this age it will subside. Let it sit in a secondary for about 2 weeks and it should get better!

 

[StudentBrewer]

Orrelse, would the temp inside the fermentor be 75 F even if the Fermometer on the side said 70 F? Just curious.

Thanks
Brandon

 

[homebrewer_99]

I agree. Your fermenting temp was not 70F, but much higher.

How is your hop balance? Hops are generally low in a HW, but not all HW's are supposed to be sweet.

Allow it to sit a while longer. The banana flavor will subside in a couple of weeks. But in the off chance that it doesn't you could always mix it with another HW batch when you pour, or even a hoppy pilsner.

My point is that I don't want you tossing it.

Same goes with any batch that you may get that's overly sweet or overly bitter. Save them for mixing. Believe it or not, these "failures" are best served in a pitcher. You have complete control the mixture there. It doesn't matter if they are in bottles. Open them before the party and find the right ratio (for example, one bottle of pilsner to 1/2 bottle of weizen) between the batches and you'll be fine. You can still serve it in weizen glasses. No one will know but you (and anyone else you let in on it).

The important thing to remember is that you have to maintain control of the pitcher refills.

 

[homebrewer_99]

Orrelse, would the temp inside the fermentor be 75 F even if the Fermometer on the side said 70 F? Just curious.

Thanks
Brandon

IMHO, I don't trust the stick on temp strips on plastic primaries. I think the temp doesn't measure anything on the inside, just the outside of the container.

Use a glass therm.

I haven't done this yet, but I want to drill a small hole in a lid and place a longstem therm (with the dial gage) through it and into the brew. This will monitor the brew temp all the time and let you know what's going on inside.

 

[El Pistolero]

I just bottled a Hefe brewed with White Labs hefeweizen yeast. I sure hope it mellows out a lot. It has an unbelievably strong banana sweetness too it. Is there anything I can do differently to change the flavor profile while using this yeast? The beer was fermented at 70 F.

Like the others said, the strong banana flavor will mellow out with time, but for the next batch you might try keeping the fermenter in a 68F water bath. The 68 degree water will cool the fermenting wort much better than 68 air will, and 68 vs 70 will give much less of a banana flavor.

 

[AHammer16]

I agree with the other members. Wait did i say members?

Anyway let it sit and age in the bottle. I just finished a HW 2 months ago and it tasted like crap. A little more time in the bottle and it is pretty damn good.

Try this, Put those bottles up some place cool and dark where you wont drink them and wait till spring. I just might be the best damn beer you've had.

Side note: I have had a SWMBO sighting.

 

[ScottT]

Well, if the temp you recorded was outside the fermenter, the actual ferment temp was probably closer to 75° then. Try to cool down your ferment temps and that strong banana/clove won't be as evident.

I think the longer you let this age it will subside. Let it sit in a secondary for about 2 weeks and it should get better!

Are you guys really seeing this much differential between the outside glass stick on thermometer and what's inside?

Since I saw this thread a few days ago, I've been checking both my Kolsch (primary) and my Weizen (secondary) once a day with a glass thermometer to verify and I'm getting the same readings from the center of the liquid as I am on my stick on thermometer. Glass is a really good conducter of temp, more so than air. Those stick on thermometers should be reading the temp of the wort through the glass and shouldn't have that much of a differential. Not more than a degree or so unless the air temps and beer temps were drasticly opposed.

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

i agree w/ scott. i think they were refering to the stick guage on the plastic primary bucket?

i agree with all, let it condition for a while, and it'll mellow. good tip from HB 99 too!

 

[Mindflux]

There was an article in Zymurgy about the stick on 'fermometers' They found that in most cases they were accurate within a degree or two. I'm not sure how this test was conducted, but I find it hard to believe.

 

[homebrewer_99]

What I was saying about the glass carboys vs the plastic primaries is that I think the temp on the glass would be more accurate. I think the temp on the outside of the bucket would be different from the temp on the inside of the bucket. Just a thought.

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

i bought a liquide crystal stick on thermometer at my HBS today and going to test it out tomorrow. i figured "what the hell" for $1.89.

 

[ScottT]

There was an article in Zymurgy about the stick on 'fermometers' They found that in most cases they were accurate within a degree or two. I'm not sure how this test was conducted, but I find it hard to believe.

Test it yourself. I have and found this to be true.

 

[3rd and Long]

I've had this happen atleast once with a Hefe, Time helped.. also having it as my 4th beer of the day helped. I didn't seem to notice/care about the funny taste.

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

heheheh good call!

 

[The Happy Mug]

I must second with ScottT. I find my fermometer as accurate as a floating glass thermometer in my carboy.

Saw this thread two days ago, cleaned and sanitized my floating thermometer, and dropped it in. It says 71, my fermometer says 71. If you don't trust, try it yourself. You'll find the stick-on quite satisfactory.

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

i just checked my stick on thermometer on my glass primary, and it's reading 70 degrees, w/ activity every 1/2 to 1 second. the thermomter in the freezer is reading 69-70. no difference??????

 

[StudentBrewer]

Thanks for the information guys. I just hope the hefe comes around with a little age. Or maybe I'll just have to put a giant slice of lemon in it.

 

[homebrewer_99]

No Lemon!!!!!!!

 

[Thor]

Or maybe I'll just have to put a giant slice of lemon in it.

No, no, NOOOOO!!! Beer requiring lemon or some other fruit to drink is not worth the four letters that go into its time-honored name. Corona drinkers be damned - no fruit! Wan't fruit, have a lemonade.

Sorry, pet peeve. I'm better now. (I think it's time for my meds.)

 

[StudentBrewer]

Disclaimer: I don't usually put lemon(or any other fruit) in my beer. But...if it isn't very good, the lemon may be it's saving grace. Would just rather not throw it out, thats all!

 

[drengel]

cmon' beer snobs-theres nothing wrong with a lemon in a hefe, it may not be 'pure' beer but it still tastes good. same goes for oranges in hefes. i dont see much difference between using spice and orange peel when brewing a hefe and throwing a small chunk of orange/lemon in it. its already got the same stuff in the beer.

 

[Dude]

cmon' beer snobs-theres nothing wrong with a lemon in a hefe, it may not be 'pure' beer but it still tastes good. same goes for oranges in hefes. i dont see much difference between using spice and orange peel when brewing a hefe and throwing a small chunk of orange/lemon in it. its already got the same stuff in the beer.

Are you talking a slice of lemon, or brewing it with lemon?

A hefe without a lemon, a corona without a lime, a guinness without a clover drawn in the head (that's for you kenmc ), is like apple pie without vanilla ice cream. Gotta have it. Period.

 

[drengel]

i think theyre talking about throwing a slice in the beer...you summed up my feelings exactly orrelse, hefes taste damn good with lemon or orange in 'em.

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

sorry fella's, fruits for pies and ice cream. ;~)

 

[homebrewer_99]

same goes for oranges in hefes. i dont see much difference between using spice and orange peel when brewing a hefe and throwing a small chunk of orange/lemon in it. its already got the same stuff in the beer.

Hefe Weizen's (German) don't have fruit in them....but Wits (Belgium) do.

 

[homebrewer_99]

Disclaimer: I don't usually put lemon(or any other fruit) in my beer. But...if it isn't very good, the lemon may be
it's saving grace. Would just rather not throw it out, thats all!

Life's too short to drink bad beer.

If you have to mask the flavor then there's something wrong with the beer.

If the dog doesn't like it...and we all know where his tongue has been...then it's bad.

 

[drengel]

i think that a small amount of lemon or orange doesnt mask the flavor, it brightens it and livens up its natural flavors. this is just my opinion of course...

 

[homebrewer_99]

You're right...mask was too strong a word...

 

[user 574]

Didn't we have this conversation before?

 

[homebrewer_99]

Probably...want to continue it here?

 

[Mikey]

I just bottled a Hefe brewed with White Labs hefeweizen yeast. I sure hope it mellows out a lot. It has an unbelievably strong banana sweetness too it. Is there anything I can do differently to change the flavor profile while using this yeast? The beer was fermented at 70 F.

Thanks,
Brandon

I'm confused- that's the way German style hefeweizens are supposed to taste! Some people describe it as being more like cloves, but these strong esters are part of the classic taste profile.

You might want to change yeasts to an American equivalent next time.

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

probably just fermented too warm. or he could go with the American hefe.

 

[homebrewer_99]

I'm confused- that's the way German style hefeweizens are supposed to taste! Some people describe it as being more like cloves, but these strong esters are part of the classic taste profile.

You might want to change yeasts to an American equivalent next time.

No reason to be confused.

If you ferment at warmer temps (69-70+)you'll get the banana and at cooler temps (65-68) the cloves - all from the same yeast.

 

[Mikey]

No reason to be confused.

I was confused as to why the original poster was complaining/surprised that there was a 'classic' hefeweizen taste to his hefewizen I'd be happy if I hit a beer style spot on!

I'm aware of the theory that higher temp= bananas, lower temp =cloves but have not been able to make that direct corellation using my own brews.

Most commercial hefes seem to offer a balanced mixture of bananas and cloves, IMHO, and this is what I strive to do. :cross:

 

[homebrewer_99]

Seems like 68-69F should do it about right.

The problem/difficulty is HOLDING that temp at a constant.

 

[AllHoppedUp]

I'm drinking a HW with mild (not strong) banana flavors right now that fermented at 63 degrees in my basement (according to stick on thermometer - so as previously stated, actual temp in carboy could have been a bit higher). That leads me to think that temperature may not be the exclusive source of the banana flavor.

Then again, I also added some huckleberries to the mix so however unlikely, I suppose it's possible that they imparted some flavor other than huckleberry. No matter to me though, it's damn good beer.

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

No matter to me though, it's damn good beer.

that's all that matters bro! enjoy

 

[blackmesa]

you are lucky. check your yeast profile next time

 

[KSBrewer]

Hefe is one of the most difficult styles to get correct. Next time make sure your pitch temp is not too high. If you pitch at higher temperatures you are likely to get more extreme hefe flavors.