Infection after 2weeks in bottles?

[minmaxx77]

At least two batches taste great at bottling day and develop "off flavours" after 2 week of bottle conditioning.

I brewed pinapple ipa and raspberry philly sour.
All tasted great from the FV. Added fruit in the end of fermentation. At bottling day both tasted fine. After 5 days in bottles i open up smallest bottle of IPA and taste was great but little undercarbed as expected. After extra week i open up next bottle and it had lost all its hop profile and pinapple flavour. It has little bit of metallic taste maybe even tiny bit sour and kind of sweeter than before(i tought it was oxidized but only sweetnes came probably bc of oxidation of Dryhopped beer).

Philly sour beer tasted great but it might be that i wasnt able to taste that mild off flavour behind its own sourness. It had great raspberry flavour so maybe it wasnt infected or lower ph protected against infection?
Both were bottled same day. First i bottled pineapple ipa and then raspberry sour.

So knowing that i have possible risk of infection i took EXTRA measures before bottling my next batch. (Mango IPA wich i had brewed 2 times sucsessfully before. But now made with more mango and more DH)
Afraid of infection I Soaked ALL my gear and bottles in hot VWP cleaner. Rinsed multible times. Then soaked bottles in starsan solution. I had bought new bottling bucket and autosiphon wich i also cleaned.

Added few grams of ascorbic acid into priming solution. Racked from the FV to the new bottling bucket with new siphon. And bottled with the siphon as usual but left almost no headspace to have less O2. Beer tasted exrteamly good at bottling day. Out of this world mango aroma and flavour, i was so happy.... Now after 2w in bottles and 5days in fridge. No mango and same kind of off flavour as with pineapple ipa. But no sweetness.

I just bottled my nectaron, citra, sabro Neipa 2 days ago with same gear and i am afraid it will turn out as bad even tho it was also great at bottling day.

I need to bottle my west coast ipa tommorow... but i am losing hope. And dont know what to do.

I wanted to have head start this year. Having brewed 6 beers.(Bottled 5) but now 2 going to waste and if i end up eventually dumping 4 of them i am going crazy

 

[Oldskewl]

I am not familiar with VWP cleaner. I had developed an infection(STA-1 gene) in my system from brewing with Saison yeast. It eventually over carbed several batches of bottled beer. Beer would be stable at bottling, but over a couple/few months in the bottles it would ferment further and I ended up with gushers or highly carbed beers. Only way I got it out of my system was to clean & soak everything with a mild bleach solution. I put my bottles in the oven at 250F for 20 min as well. All has been good since.

 

[mac_1103]

So knowing that i have possible risk of infection i took EXTRA measures before bottling my next batch. (Mango IPA wich i had brewed 2 times sucsessfully before. But now made with more mango and more DH)
Afraid of infection I Soaked ALL my gear and bottles in hot VWP cleaner. Rinsed multible times. Then soaked bottles in starsan solution.

Hitting things with two different sanitizers is a good idea, since different agents sanitize by different mechanisms. Three is even better. Anytime I use a diastatic yeast or a wine yeast (killer) I will sanitize anything that touched it with bleach, then iodophor, and finally starsan.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

I've never added fruit during the fermentation stage of brewing so I my not be able to help. But my fruit additions were always during secondary and always with potassium sorbate and Metabisulfate for additional protection. I'm curious how long the total fermentation time was. With all that said, I ended using Brewer's Best extracts for any fruit nowadays.

 

[minmaxx77]

I am not familiar with VWP cleaner. I had developed an infection(STA-1 gene) in my system from brewing with Saison yeast. It eventually over carbed several batches of bottled beer. Beer would be stable at bottling, but over a couple/few months in the bottles it would ferment further and I ended up with gushers or highly carbed beers. Only way I got it out of my system was to clean & soak everything with a mild bleach solution. I put my bottles in the oven at 250F for 20 min as well. All has been good since.

Interesting is I dont have problem with it overcarbing. They are in the fridge tho. I think i have to double wash my bottles too to rule the bottle issue out.
I always rinse the bottles with dish soap and hot water right after i pour them. Then i would store them and just sanitize with chemipro san or starsan before filling. And i never had problems before. (30 batches or so)
Now i had almost 6 month break and when i came back to my hobby i have this issue(first time using vwp.. before i was using pbw cleaner)

Coffe stout 5gl- great. Only 4 bottles left for lagering to see how it developes
Ipa with pinapple 5.3g- recepie was great but taste turned bad
Rasperry gose 5.3g- everybody loved it
Mango ipa 5.8- huge mess again after bottles
Verdant Nectaron Neipa 4.6g- was my first ever messing with water salts. 3d in bottles and lets hope they stay super pale and juicy
Westcoast ipa 5g- also with water adjustments. I need to bottle it but i am afraid.

 

[minmaxx77]

I've never added fruit during the fermentation stage of brewing so I my not be able to help. But my fruit additions were always during secondary and always with potassium sorbate and Metabisulfate for additional protection. I'm curious how long the total fermentation time was. With all that said, I ended using Brewer's Best extracts for any fruit nowadays.

I have added fruit always after fermentation or at the very end of it. Never used secondary vessel. Never had problems or infections with fruit before. Pinapple was store bought pastorized 100% puree. Mango was just fruit wich i peeled chopped and pastorized myself.

Pinapple IPA is only 2 bottles left(friends say it wasnt undrinkable but wasnt pleasant either) but i am going to lager them for months to see if they get worse/better.

It is frustrating to sit on next 40bottles of beer that tase kinda same even tho its completley different recepies

Recepies are below. (I have notes there before the taste turned bad)

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1444532/pine-hop-le
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1449150/mango-ipa

 

[IslandLizard]

Dang! Sorry to hear you suddenly ran into trouble after a long streak of success.

Have you successfully made fruited beers, like the ones that are failing now, before?
Could it be the fruit causing the issue?

First I'd look for things that may have changed in your equipment, ingredients, cleaners, sanitizers, processes, etc.

I see you're in Estonia, and am surprised you can get many of the brewing goodies such as PBW, Starsan, etc.

Some thoughts:

(first time using vwp.. before i was using pbw cleaner)

Maybe it's the VWP Cleaner not cleaning thoroughly enough. VWP Cleaner is similar to what's known in the U.S. as OneStep.

The ingredient that's in PBW and missing from VWP/OneStep is Sodium MetaSilicate, a strong degreaser. It's a substitute for TSP (Tri-Sodium Phosphate). Maybe you can add that or TSP to your VWP solution, although it shouldn't be that crucial.

Do you use a bottle brush? I find those crucial.

Are you sure your fermenter, bottling bucket, spigots, tubing, bottling wands, siphons, etc. are all clean and well sanitized? Spigots have tight spaces, they need to be taken apart regularly for thorough cleaning and sanitizing.

Are you still using Starsan? If you can get Iodophor (aka Povidone) it's not a bad idea to switch to using that for sanitation for a while. It kills the other side of the bug spectrum better.

I'm just beating the bushes...

 

[IslandLizard]

Let me add, cleaners and sanitizers are different products, each with unique abilities to do their job.
As John Palmer said: "You can't sanitize something that isn't clean in the first place."
IOW, you can't sanitize dirt.

 

[minmaxx77]

Have you successfully made fruited beers, like the ones that are failing now, before?

Yes. never had issues with fruit addition. It was my third time doing this Mango IPA. First time i added 1.2kg of fresh mangoes peeled, cut and pastorized myself. It was by far best beer I made but felt i will use more mangoes next time.
Second time I used locally produced pure and 100% mango puree for the convenience. just crack it open and pour into FV. Again super tasty and color like mango (but i got less beer because i didnt want to pull that thick mix of beer and puree from the bottom of the vessel). Third time i was back to using mango (bc it doesnt absorb the beer) 1.9kg and same process. At bottling day. It smelled like mango paradise. Tasted like mango juice beer. and expectations were high. it hasnt changed color, wich i belive is thanks to the help of this forum to leave very little headspace and use of ascorbic acid for DH beers.
In the past my heavily DH beers would turn little brown and develop similar sweet aftertaste wich i now know is from O2 after ferm. Thats why i was thinking O2 was problem with my Pinaplle IPA wich also developed sweet after taste on top off other off flavours. But now the same off flavours occured with this Mango ipa but without sweetness. So i got rid of O2 problem but possibly have something else going on.

I see you're in Estonia, and am surprised you can get many of the brewing goodies such as PBW, Starsan, etc

I used Chemipro san but swiched to Starsan with those batches this year. Yes i have tasted both sanitizers and chemipro san has stronger taste and even could pick it up in my beer once (am i super taster or was it my imagination bc i was "looking for it"). My LHBS didnt have 500g PBW so i bought small VWP instead wich also is said to clean and sanitize. And it felt like very similar and smelled the same. i didnt know it has one ingridient less. That might be what i need.

Do you use a bottle brush? I find those crucial.

Yes i soaked bottles in hot VWP solution and used brush before rinsing multiple times and and inspected every bottle to make sure it is clean too. Let them dry and it was followed by starsan at bottling right after. For bottling I used the new bottling bucket and siphon wich were both cleaned and sanitized.
But if i am not mistaken it was fermented in the same bucket where pinapple ipa wich was first batch that developed that offtaste. But then again the offlavours wasnt there after 2 weeks of fermenting and only developed after bottling.
Let me add that i never did clean bottles on bottling day before. only sanitized. I clean the bottle right after drinking it and store it in closed box after its dried. usually after 2-4w it will get new beer into it. so i never bothered cleaning again and only sanitized. Now i had long break before brewing so i also cleaned bottles again before bottling just to be safe. But now i got the problem

Are you sure your fermenter, bottling bucket, spigots, tubing, bottling wands, siphons, etc. are all clean and well sanitized? Spigots have tight spaces, they need to be taken apart regularly for thorough cleaning and sanitizing.

Yes i clean the buckets right after bottling. Dump the slurry (if its FV). Rinse it until "clean". Then use cleaner solution (vwp this time) and brush. rinse and reapeat one more time before putting it away. On brewday I take the bucket and clean it AGAIN before making the star san solution into it. (its just in case it picked up something when it was stored) Yes i remove the spiggots every time after empting the FV to clean and store the bucket without the spiggot.

 

[SFC Rudy]

At least two batches taste great at bottling day and develop "off flavours" after 2 week of bottle conditioning.

I brewed pinapple ipa and raspberry philly sour.
All tasted great from the FV. Added fruit in the end of fermentation. At bottling day both tasted fine. After 5 days in bottles i open up smallest bottle of IPA and taste was great but little undercarbed as expected. After extra week i open up next bottle and it had lost all its hop profile and pinapple flavour. It has little bit of metallic taste maybe even tiny bit sour and kind of sweeter than before(i tought it was oxidized but only sweetnes came probably bc of oxidation of Dryhopped beer).

Philly sour beer tasted great but it might be that i wasnt able to taste that mild off flavour behind its own sourness. It had great raspberry flavour so maybe it wasnt infected or lower ph protected against infection?
Both were bottled same day. First i bottled pineapple ipa and then raspberry sour.

So knowing that i have possible risk of infection i took EXTRA measures before bottling my next batch. (Mango IPA wich i had brewed 2 times sucsessfully before. But now made with more mango and more DH)
Afraid of infection I Soaked ALL my gear and bottles in hot VWP cleaner. Rinsed multible times. Then soaked bottles in starsan solution. I had bought new bottling bucket and autosiphon wich i also cleaned.

Added few grams of ascorbic acid into priming solution. Racked from the FV to the new bottling bucket with new siphon. And bottled with the siphon as usual but left almost no headspace to have less O2. Beer tasted exrteamly good at bottling day. Out of this world mango aroma and flavour, i was so happy.... Now after 2w in bottles and 5days in fridge. No mango and same kind of off flavour as with pineapple ipa. But no sweetness.

I just bottled my nectaron, citra, sabro Neipa 2 days ago with same gear and i am afraid it will turn out as bad even tho it was also great at bottling day.

I need to bottle my west coast ipa tommorow... but i am losing hope. And dont know what to do.

I wanted to have head start this year. Having brewed 6 beers.(Bottled 5) but now 2 going to waste and if i end up eventually dumping 4 of them i am going crazy

Did you use a brush on your bottles?

 

[mac_1103]

Did you use a brush on your bottles?

Yes i soaked bottles in hot VWP solution and used brush before rinsing multiple times and and inspected every bottle to make sure it is clean too.

 

[IslandLizard]

Yes i remove the spiggots every time after empting the FV to clean and store the bucket without the spiggot.

Do you take the spigots apart, to clean and sanitize all their parts separately, including the nut and rubber washer(s) on the inside, etc.

Most bucket spigots I'm familiar with consist of 3 parts, yours maybe similar, (or different):

1. the little tap part with the handle, that can be removed from the main body,
2. the main body outer shell, that has the nut on the inside,
3. the main body inner shell that rotates within the outer shell. This is the part that you can turn, to make the little tap point in the right direction (downward or sideways) without loosening the inner nut.

It's the tight space between the 2 parts of the main body (inner and outer shell) that allow you to rotate it, is also where bugs can harbor over time. Mine had a black almost tar-like substance in it.

 

[minmaxx77]

Do you take the spigots apart,

Never have.

 

[minmaxx77]

So there is chance the issue is not at bottling but something prior to that. Like the infected spiggot.

Tho beer have always tasted fine when bottling. But maybe this "infection" or whatever it is needs more time to really appear in taste?

 

[IslandLizard]

So there is chance the issue is not at bottling but something prior to that. Like the infected spiggot.

What spigot(s) are you thinking of?
The valve/spigot on your kettle?

Any other spigots in use before bottling?
Spigots on fermenters perhaps?

I was referring to typical plastic bottling bucket spigots, which can be overlooked. But there can be others in use, sure.

 

[minmaxx77]

Spigots on fermenters perhaps?

Exactly that. Plastic spiggot on plastic bucket

 

[minmaxx77]

I just drank some of that beer. Its 6.9% Abv and tastes better after one bottle

I Feel like i want to throw everything beer related i have into the trash and start from scrach.

It so frustrating to waste lot of money. And more importantly a lot of time just to get something crappy. And whats worse...who has the time to empty and clean all those bottles for nothing.

 

[IslandLizard]

I just drank some of that beer. Its 6.9% Abv and tastes better after one bottle

Are you implying (saying) that bottle did not taste good?
If so, what flaws did you taste?

I Feel like i want to throw everything beer related i have into the trash and start from scrach.

Then 30 batches later, throwing it all out again? and again, and again?

We understand your frustration right now, but relax, infections are easy to prevent and fairly easy to remediate once they occur.
We have numerous threads on eliminating established infections, and prevent them from occurring again.

Key is to get to all the individual (smaller) sub-parts in your equipment to thoroughly clean and sanitize them.

IOW, "bugs" are not that hardy, you just need to get to where they hang out, in tight, dark spaces usually.

As long as the plastic brewing equipment that's being used after the boil isn't (deeply) scratched, it can be cleaned and sanitized.

Vinyl (transfer) tubing can be more difficult to clean to sanitary standards, and often it's just easier to periodically replace those 4-5 feet with new, since it's fairly cheap insurance.

But it can be maintained too. For example, the 5' piece of vinyl hose I use on my racking cane to transfer finished beer from fermenters to kegs (or a bottling bucket) has been in use since I started brewing in 2008. Still clean as a whistle, and no infections.

BTW, is there a valve on your brew kettle? That's another piece that needs to be thoroughly cleaned, and taken apart, if possible.

 

[minmaxx77]

Are you implying (saying) that bottle did not taste good?
If so, what flaws did you taste?

It was this mango ipa and it wasnt good. (Its hard to explain in english) but i think it is bit dry and metallic or copper like but nothing too much like blood or rust. If i kept it in my mouth longer it felt more and more (not sour) but acidic or it kinda sting my tounge if you can say that.

 

[minmaxx77]

We understand your frustration right now, but relax, infections are easy to prevent and fairly easy to remediate once they occur.
We have numerous threads on eliminating established infections, and prevent them from occurring again.

Key is to get to all the individual (smaller) sub-parts in your equipment to thoroughly clean and sanitize them.

You are right. I have to take a closer look on my process and be more thorough with all the tiny things next time.

BTW, is there a valve on your brew kettle?

No there is none.

I am super thankful for the support and for thinking along. If you get any more ideas please speak up

I will bottle my west coast tommorow and will see if it tastes fine tomorroe from the FV.
My plan is to try few things...
I will clean my bottles:
1. With VWP+brush->sanitize with starsan
2. Just water(few bottles)-> sanitize with starsan
Then fill my bottles:
A. Some bottles Straight from the FV and priming each bottle individually with sugar
B. Using my usal method with autosiphon and bottling bucket. +(Boil the priming sugar longer)

Will end up with 4 differently bottled beer
1A, 1B, 2A, 2B

If both turn out good im happy and need to be careful next time
if only one turnes out good we know the other is issue
If both turn out bad, we "can?" rule out infection from bottling and assume the infection took place before and juat wasnt noticiable yet.

 

[mac_1103]

So there is chance the issue is not at bottling but something prior to that. Like the infected spiggot.

If the infection is in the spigot on the bottling bucket then it won't show up until after you bottle.

 

[Miraculix]

It's probably the spigot. The nasties can hide there forever if not disassembled before the cleaning.

 

[minmaxx77]

If the infection is in the spigot on the bottling bucket then it won't show up until after you bottle.

But it wasnt. I used fresh new bottling bucket wich i also cleaned and sanitized before first use.

 

[minmaxx77]

It's probably the spigot. The nasties can hide there forever if not disassembled before the cleaning.

Spigot of the FV. And it may be the case.

But its interesting that vulrnable wort doesnt get infected(read taste infected) from that spiggot for 2 weeks it sits in the FV. And only after 2 more weeks in the bottles it developes offlavors.

Next batch will definetly use new plastic bucket and see if the beer come out without infection.

 

[minmaxx77]

Now when i think of it. Few boxes of bottles were in the humid basement. An two carboard boxes had very little bit off mold on them. I wanted to throw them away and set them aside but in the end i ended up putting the filled and capped bottles back into those boxes. Can the bacteria from mold "climb" and penetrate the bottle cap seal and infect the beer?

 

[mac_1103]

Spigot of the FV. And it may be the case.

But its interesting that vulrnable wort doesnt get infected(read taste infected) from that spiggot for 2 weeks it sits in the FV. And only after 2 more weeks in the bottles it developes offlavors.

But the beer doesn't pass through that spigot until you bottle it, right? And "after 2 more weeks in the bottles" is the first time you tasted it since you bottled, right?

 

[minmaxx77]

But the beer does pass through that spigot until you bottle it, right? And "after 2 more weeks in the bottles" is the first time you tasted it since you bottled, right?

I take all the gravity samples from the spigot. And when i bottle i dont use it but crack the lid and autosiphon beer out of the fv into the bottling bucket. And use siphon to bottle from the bottling bucket.

I try to fill few 220ml botles every batch wich i call brewers tasting bottles. Those i usually open up after 4-5d, after 1w and after 2w. (Those "infected" batches were better at day 5 and turned worse over time)

 

[MaxStout]

Now when i think of it. Few boxes of bottles were in the humid basement. An two carboard boxes had very little bit off mold on them. I wanted to throw them away and set them aside but in the end i ended up putting the filled and capped bottles back into those boxes. Can the bacteria from mold "climb" and penetrate the bottle cap seal and infect the beer?

No.

Whatever microbes made it into the beer did so before you capped. Spigot, plastic tubing, bucket, etc.

 

[IslandLizard]

I take all the gravity samples from the spigot. And when i bottle i dont use it but crack the lid and autosiphon beer out of the fv into the bottling bucket. And use siphon to bottle from the bottling bucket.

The infection can also live in the autosiphon and... the racking hose.

If you use a spring loaded bottling wand, pay attention to cleaning and sanitizing that too.

In short:
Everything that touching your finished beer (and chilled wort) needs to be:

a) thoroughly cleaned and​

b) sanitized​

The infection can also lie in the FV spigot assembly, for the same reasons I wrote for the bottling bucket spigot, in post #18. They're likely the same build.
First soak the spigot assembly in some very hot water. That makes it easier to push the inside rotating barrel (that holds the little tap at the end) out of the outside barrel (the one that has the threads for the nut. Clean and sanitize those rubber seals too.

(Plastic) buckets are easy to clean and sanitize, they have a smooth interior, as long as you don't scratch them. The lid has a few areas to pay attention to, mainly the groove and the airlock hole/grommet.

Also spray or mop sanitizer around the area where the lid seals around the bucket, before opening it.

 

[minmaxx77]

If you use a spring loaded bottling wand, pay attention to cleaning and sanitizing that too.

Yes. That i always have taken apart as well as all parts of autosiphon. The spiggot is only thing that i overlooked bc i was afraid that afterwards it will leak. I was worried at first but since i didnt have any infections(until now) i didnt bother.

Since i cant change the past we will see how west coast bottling goes and how it will turn out after few weeks. If it turnes bad decpite me being extra thourough with cleaning at bottling then we can assume the beer was already infected and just needed more time to develop off flavours. (And maybe that little O2 that is introtuced on bottling day will help those nasties to wake up)

I will clean all my gear again. including spigots and leave them in pieces until i need them.
Next brew day i will start with cleaning again everything i need especially those things that will touch cooled wort.

Maybe it would be good idea to go back to basics and brew something simple. NO fruit or other additions in the FV. No DH. No need to touch anything until bottling day. Then i can really focus on the important stuff without extra risks of infection possibilities.
And hopefully in the end i can finally RDWHAHB.

Ty again and I promise I will keep you posted so dont forget about this thread.

Ps! My LHBS wanted to try my "infected" beers. So we'll see what he says about it.

 

[minmaxx77]

Update. This spigot inner part was almost impossible to pull out from its shell without it almost breaking. It is unusable now but atleast i know what is inside

Edit: that was random spigot i had in my kit. So probably all that have been used look similar.
But i dont know how is it possible to regularly take apart. I tried to close it on table and needed all my bodyweight to push it fully in. (And as far as i kno i am not weak)

 

[G_robertus]

Just to rule out you have an issue with actual metals leaking in your beer:
If you dip your finger in the beer and rub it over the back of your hand, does your hand smell like metal? If so, you have iron coming into your beer from somewhere. If it doesn't, the metallic flavour is related to something elseb like oxidation, ingredients, etc.

For what it's worth, Chemipro products are not no-rinse, as it is illegal to market products as such in the EU. And in order to distinguish it from Star San, CP San contains a flavouring agent that I find disgusting and has to be rinsed off before you use the items. This is why I don't typically use it anymore.

Regarding your issues, you could narrow your problem down by leaving a beer in the fermenter for an extended period of time and see if it develops the flavour in there. If it doesn't, you know it's in the equipment you use for packaging. If it does, you'll have to look at earlier steps. Hoses can be a stubborn source of infection. You can treat silicone tubing with heat, but they are more oxygen sensitive (although that doesn't matter much if you always use a bottling bucket). I've found that heat is the most reliable way to get rid of micro organisms, so I try to treat everything I can with heat. Alkaline substances can also target some of the organisms who shrug off acidic chemicals.

 

[mac_1103]

I don't think I've ever seen a spigot like that. The ones I have look like this:

Much easier to take apart and put back together. Maybe your LHBS has something similar?

 

[IslandLizard]

Congrats on separating the spigot and having a good look inside...
Those wort/beer remnants can well be the cause of infections when not cleaned and sanitized thoroughly between batches.

Update. This spigot inner part was almost impossible to pull out from its shell without it almost breaking.

You'll need to soak the whole (plastic) spigot assembly in very hot water (read: nearly boiling) for a minute or so before attempting to separate the 2 main ~1" barrels. The heat makes the plastic much more pliable. Then push (or pull) it apart as soon as you remove it from the hot water.

Your spigot look closer to the ones I have than @mac_1103's. On mine the inner, nearly 1" diameter, barrel is fully rotatable inside the slightly wider outer one that has the threads that hold the nut. In that design, when you rotate the inner barrel (that holds the actual spigot with the little handle) the outer 1" diameter body remains put. So there will be no leaking.

 

[minmaxx77]

If you dip your finger in the beer and rub it over the back of your hand, does your hand smell like metal?

I'll give it a shot

CP San contains a flavouring agent

Thats explains why i felt its taste too before. Great that i have starsan now.
If cleaning/replaceing spigot and extra cleaning wont help I'll make some simple batch or even extract to test out leaving something in the FV for longer (ie +2 extra weeks).

You'll need to soak the whole (plastic) spigot assembly in very hot water

YES. Bravo. Much easier. And spigot remains useable.
I found out that there is tiny bit vaseline inbetween inner and outer barrel. I belive its there to make it more water tight? Should i put new before assemlbling on brewday?

 

[minmaxx77]

If you dip your finger in the beer and rub it over the back of your hand, does your hand smell like metal?

Wow this technique really helps to pronounce the smell.
No metallic smell. Unpleasant smell but i cant put my finger on it what its like.
Maybe little bit medicine?, mild nail polis remover?

Now i remember that smell. I did forced diacetyl tests when it was fermenting and it brought out that same smell i felt now. Can it be that forced D test also helped to produce those off flavours faster that was otherwise hidden at the time?.
Now im pretty much certain that the beer was infected before bottling.

 

[G_robertus]

That sounds like phenolic or chlorophenols. That could be due to an infection or, additionally in case of the latter, due to contamination with chlorine or similar compounds. Could it be that you don't rinse your bottles (well) after applying cleaners? Or that you rinse with water containing chlorine? I think VWP contains chlorine, so you really want to rinse that out properly. Whenever I use chlorine cleaners I rinse with water extensively and I let the items air out at least a day. The only time I didn't do that I had a chlorophenol problem. Chlorophenols are very harsh, typically bitter or astringent. Burnt rubber, medicinal, plasters, plastic or 'dangerous' (like "I really shouldn't consume this") smells/tastes are examples of what they can taste like.

By the way, how did you get the spigot open? I've tried for years to pull them apart but I just can't.

 

[minmaxx77]

That sounds like phenolic or chlorophenols. That could be due to an infection or, additionally in case of the latter, due to contamination with chlorine or similar compounds. Could it be that you don't rinse your bottles (well) after applying cleaners? Or that you rinse with water containing chlorine? I think VWP contains chlorine, so you really want to rinse that out properly. Whenever I use chlorine cleaners I rinse with water extensively and I let the items air out at least a day. The only time I didn't do that I had a chlorophenol problem. Chlorophenols are very harsh, typically bitter or astringent. Burnt rubber, medicinal, plasters, plastic or 'dangerous' (like "I really shouldn't consume this") smells/tastes are examples of what they can taste like.

By the way, how did you get the spigot open? I've tried for years to pull them apart but I just can't.

WE ARE onto something.
No chlorine on tap. But i looked it up and vwp does have chlorine. PBW doesnt wich was the cleaner i used before. Those off flavours and smells occured after i move to VWP. I do rinse many times but you never no if there is tiny bit left.
OR
Its an infection like i described in my edited post right above.

 

[minmaxx77]

By the way, how did you get the spigot open? I've tried for years to pull them apart but I just can't.

Like @IslandLizard pointet out you need to soak it in nearly boiling water.
I just boiled water in my electric kettle and pour it in the bowl with spigot. Let it sit for a minute and replaced water with new hot water (Bc at first bowl etc takes lot of heat away) then let it sit another minute or so.
I had the main nut in place halfway to help me have a better grip. Removed the spigot "handle" part by pulling. And put the screwdriver throu the part the spigot was so i have something better than flimsy spigot to pull

 

[hotbeer]

Several years ago before I changed to a different type of fermenter, I was using plastic spigots in my FV's. The first few times I took them apart and cleaned them. Then I realized I could buy them in bulk quantities of a dozen for less than a dollar USD each. After that they became a one use item and tossed in the recycling bin after that.