My plan for a wild sour saison, does this sound reasonable

[bucketnative]

I was about to toss a mason jar of starter that I had grown up from some rosemary in our garden. The starter had smelled like burned corn and band-aids for the past week. However, when I unscrewed the lid all the way, I noticed a pellicle had formed and the smell was of sour cherry/balsamic vinegar... reminiscent of a few sour Flemish ales I have had. So, I am letting the pellicle build up.

The saison (78% Pilsner, 11% Munich, 5.5% Wheat, 5.5% flaked oats, with Nelson Sauvin hops and Belle Saison yeast) is currently finishing up primary fermentation. I'm going to bottle 4 gal of the saison as-is and attempt the souring with the remaining 1 gal.

FULL STOP - Is 26 IBU too much to allow for growth of souring bacteria?

My plan is to use a sanitized spoon to skim off some of the pellicle and use that to inoculate the 1-gal of saison in a glass jug with an airlock on it. I am doing that to minimize transfer of any of the yeast that has likely formed a sediment at the bottom of the mason jar.

2ND FULL STOP - Perhaps something that smells like balsamic might not be best for creating a funky saison?

Does this sound like a plan? Any other tips would be great.

 

[Grannyknot]

What makes you think there is souring bacteria in there?

 

[m00ps]

FULL STOP - Is 26 IBU too much to allow for growth of souring bacteria?

My plan is to use a sanitized spoon to skim off some of the pellicle and use that to inoculate the 1-gal of saison in a glass jug with an airlock on it. I am doing that to minimize transfer of any of the yeast that has likely formed a sediment at the bottom of the mason jar.

2ND FULL STOP - Perhaps something that smells like balsamic might not be best for creating a funky saison?

Does this sound like a plan? Any other tips would be great.

I wouldnt worry about the early off smells. My tomato sour yeast/bugs I harvested smelled distinctly of nail polish until I built the starter up for the 3rd time. I guess natural selection occurred and only the bugs that could metabolize beer sugars survived. Now it tastes and smells great

1 - Yes, 10IBU is generally the recommended cut off for most sours. I've been able to get a nicely soured beer above an estimated 25IBUs, but it was a very aggressive sour blend. You dont really knwo what you are dealing with here. I see many people having issues getting there beer to sour even at 10IBUs, its very dependant on the bacteria you have in there

2 - That would be pretty funky, but still could work. I have a sour baltic porter that can range from balsamic tastes to tart to malty depending on the temp, and your perception. I think you need to taste the starter wort after youve let it sit for a while and it should give you an idea of how sour this stuff can make 0IBU starter wort and what tastes it can impart. There is no need to skim off the pellicle. I would advise against it

 

[bucketnative]

What makes you think there is souring bacteria in there?

Mostly the smell. It is very distinct like a sour Flemish, very reminiscent of Rodenbach Grand Cru or Duchess De Bourgogne.

 

[bucketnative]

I wouldnt worry about the early off smells. My tomato sour yeast/bugs I harvested smelled distinctly of nail polish until I built the starter up for the 3rd time. I guess natural selection occurred and only the bugs that could metabolize beer sugars survived. Now it tastes and smells great

1 - Yes, 10IBU is generally the recommended cut off for most sours.

2 - I think you need to taste the starter wort after youve let it sit for a while and it should give you an idea of how sour this stuff can make 0IBU starter wort and what tastes it can impart. There is no need to skim off the pellicle. I would advise against it

So, it sounds like the best course of action would be to continue to grow this starter. Then build up a larger starter to let some natural selection occur. Then if it tastes decent, use it in something more amenable to souring, like a very low IBU ale.

 

[505-Brewer]

Vinegar in a saison wont be nice. Id grow it up and see if it is really vinegary. Make a 1 gal beer w airlock excluding O2. If it comes out tart/sour w no vinegar then use it. If its vinegar blend it into a Flanders Red.

 

[m00ps]

The vinegar is likely just acetic acid from oxygen exposure. Try to minimize headspace and use an airlock ro some method of sealing the starter, but letting CO2 out. Ive gotten acetic acid smells in a few long starters I did but the yeast was still fine

 

[TNGabe]

Don't.