Need to go electric...

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wepeeler

wepeeler

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So after dialing in my propane system to a tee, we got a letter from the condo association that we aren't allowed to have open flame devices anymore. So there goes my Hellfire burner in the garage...Grr...

I've been researching adding an electric element to my kettle, all-in-one systems, induction plates and any other way I can move to electric brewing. The biggest challenge is I would need a 240V outlet in the garage. I do have a 240V dryer plug in the basement. I was going to hire an electrician to tap into that, and wire me up into the garage. Then, it dawned on me to research extension cables! Would something like THIS (240V Extension Cable) work? It's 50FT. I don't want to run into ANY issues with electricity. I don't want to start a fire or get zapped. Is this a viable option?

https://www.uline.com/Product/Detai...tLvTBWxTgO89HhwvlDxWGOj5HFsDg-YhoCzsYQAvD_BwE

Leaning heavily towards the Grainfather G40 :)

Would I need this (ADAPTER) as well, to go from extension cable to the G40 plug?
 
wepeeler said:
So after dialing in my propane system to a tee, we got a letter from the condo association that we aren't allowed to have open flame devices anymore. So there goes my Hellfire burner in the garage...Grr...

I've been researching adding an electric element to my kettle, all-in-one systems, induction plates and any other way I can move to electric brewing. The biggest challenge is I would need a 240V outlet in the garage. I do have a 240V dryer plug in the basement. I was going to hire an electrician to tap into that, and wire me up into the garage. Then, it dawned on me to research extension cables! Would something like THIS (240V Extension Cable) work? It's 50FT. I don't want to run into ANY issues with electricity. I don't want to start a fire or get zapped. Is this a viable option?

https://www.uline.com/Product/Detai...tLvTBWxTgO89HhwvlDxWGOj5HFsDg-YhoCzsYQAvD_BwE

Leaning heavily towards the Grainfather G40 :)

Would I need this (ADAPTER) as well, to go from extension cable to the G40 plug?
Click to expand...
The extension cord you linked is a 120V cord.

Does your dryer outlet accept a 3 blade or 4 blade plug?

Brew on :mug:
 
GFCI is critical for safe electric brewing. If your dryer outlet is 4-prong, you may be able to replace the breaker with a GFCI breaker. If 3-prong, you probably need a downstream GFCI.

50' #10 on a 30A circuit is not a big deal, as long as the circuit isn't already long. You could go #8 if you're paranoid and have money to burn, but IMO not a big deal at 240V. (If you're at 208V it might matter for controls, but still unlikely.)

As Doug pointed out, the link is going to a 120V extension cord.
 
mashdar said:
GFCI is critical for safe electric brewing. If your dryer outlet is 4-prong, you may be able to replace the breaker with a GFCI breaker. If 3-prong, you probably need a downstream GFCI.

50' #10 on a 30A circuit is not a big deal, as long as the circuit isn't already long. You could go #8 if you're paranoid and have money to burn, but IMO not a big deal at 240V. (If you're at 208V it might matter for controls, but still unlikely.)

As Doug pointed out, the link is going to a 120V extension cord.
Click to expand...
Electrically, and safety wise, you could put a GFCI in the service panel for an old style 3-wire dryer plug, as long as you leave the gnd/neutral wire connected to the service panel bus, and not connect the gnd/neutral to the neutral terminal on the GFCI breaker. But then, you couldn't use the outlet for a dryer anymore, as it would constantly trip the GFCI. It is also probably not code compliant to do this. So, if you have a 3-wire dryer outlet, you would need to use an inline GFCI (not in the service panel.)

Brew on :mug:
 
wepeeler said:
Sorry, got excited and jumped the gun. I'll check my dryer outlet when I get home. If it is a 3 prong, would this be good? 240 Extension Cable. And still need this, I'm assuming. Adapter.
Click to expand...
No, that adapter is a four prong plug, and won't fit in a three slot outlet. The extension cord has locking plug/outlet ends which are not compatible with straight blade plugs/outlets (that the two common dryer outlets have.) And, you still need to figure out what you are going to do for GFCI.

Brew on :mug:
 
doug293cz said:
No, that adapter is a four prong plug, and won't fit in a three slot outlet. The extension cord has locking plug/outlet ends which are not compatible with straight blade plugs/outlets (that the two common dryer outlets have.) And, you still need to figure out what you are going to do for GFCI.

Brew on :mug:
Click to expand...
This is what I'm working with
20240427_163027.jpg
 
Is your panel in the garage? If so, it’s ridiculously easy to install a dedicated breaker/outlet (assuming you have the empty slots).

I’m an electrician but low voltage/data. So basically, a civilian lol. It took me less than an hour to install a 30amp outlet for my AIO system.
 
So that's a 10-30R. The matching plug is called 10-30P.

The issue with 3-prong dryers vs GFCI is that they're almost universally set up to use the ground to make 120V for the motor, controls, and light. That ground current would trip the GFCI.

As Doug said, there are ways to work around it. If you need it for a dryer, you're probably looking an in-line GFCI for the AIO system.
 
Airborneguy said:
Is your panel in the garage? If so, it’s ridiculously easy to install a dedicated breaker/outlet (assuming you have the empty slots).

I’m an electrician but low voltage/data. So basically, a civilian lol. It took me less than an hour to install a 30amp outlet for my AIO system.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, the panel is in the basement on the opposite side of the garage.
mashdar said:
So that's a 10-30R. The matching plug is called 10-30P.

The issue with 3-prong dryers vs GFCI is that they're almost universally set up to use the ground to make 120V for the motor, controls, and light. That ground current would trip the GFCI.

As Doug said, there are ways to work around it. If you need it for a dryer, you're probably looking an in-line GFCI for the AIO system.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Just trying to figure out what the easiest, safest way would be. Seems like extension from outlet to GFCI to adapter to AIO plug? I'm not messing with the panel myself. I have a friend of a friend who is an electrician, but I was trying to avoid bugging him.
 
mashdar said:
The easy button is an inline GFCI, but for 240V they're ~$200+. If you're inclined, I think people on the forum wire a "spa panel" with GFCI breaker into the extension cord. Doug et al may have links for that?
Click to expand...
Yes, a spa panel wired into an extension cord is relatively easy to implement, and cheaper than a well integrated in-line GFCI, but bulkier and uglier. The $$ vs. aesthetics trade-off is something that each end user needs to evaluate for themself.

I think I have some diagrams saved that show how to hook up a spa panel for this case. Let me know if interested.

Brew on :mug:
 
Bobby_M said:
Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but have you not considered brewing in the basement very near the panel? Electric opens up a world of possibilities.
Click to expand...
Would need a hood or something to keep my condo from smelling like a brewery. My fiancé isn't a fan of the brewery smell like I am...
 
doug293cz said:
Yes, a spa panel wired into an extension cord is relatively easy to implement, and cheaper than a well integrated in-line GFCI, but bulkier and uglier. The $$ vs. aesthetics trade-off is something that each end user needs to evaluate for themself.

I think I have some diagrams saved that show how to hook up a spa panel for this case. Let me know if interested.

Brew on :mug:
Click to expand...
Link me to the hardware por favor
 
Since no-one has asked yet; Do you maybe have any spare slots in your service panel to throw in another breaker for a dedicated line rather than share with a dryer? While not suggesting you install it yourself, from your other posts you strike me as adept at many DIY projects so you could save a bit of the cost of an electricians time by pulling the wire from your panel to your garage. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwi...x-SIMpull-CU-NM-B-W-G-Wire-63948422/202316239
I linked to the 10/3 rather than 10/2 because you might as well future-proof it if you're going to the time and expense anyway...you can plug in an appropriate GFCI and adapter in at the garage end... Just buy the parts, run the wire without connecting it, according to local codes (which you can easily look up) so that when the electrician shows up, all they have to do is inspect and install the breaker and plug.
Just a thought. :mug:
 
Broken Crow said:
Since no-one has asked yet; Do you maybe have any spare slots in your service panel to throw in another breaker for a dedicated line rather than share with a dryer? While not suggesting you install it yourself, from your other posts you strike me as adept at many DIY projects so you could save a bit of the cost of an electricians time by pulling the wire from your panel to your garage. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwi...x-SIMpull-CU-NM-B-W-G-Wire-63948422/202316239
I linked to the 10/3 rather than 10/2 because you might as well future-proof it if you're going to the time and expense anyway...you can plug in an appropriate GFCI and adapter in at the garage end... Just buy the parts, run the wire without connecting it, according to local codes (which you can easily look up) so that when the electrician shows up, all they have to do is inspect and install the breaker and plug.
Just a thought. :mug:
Click to expand...
Thanks. I actually like that idea. I'm assuming slots 21 and 23 would work? My dad has done some electrical work, and I'm sure YouTube could help guide me through the easy stuff. What would be an appropriate GFCI? The adapter would be from the new garage outlet to the Grainfather plug?

20240428_110729.jpg
 
A side bonus of buying a roll of Romex, is that should you decide to add an element to your existing kettle;
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/elementkit_tcrip_wl.htm
and build your own controller;
https://www.auberins.com/index.php?...esult&search_in_description=1&keyword=dspr320
https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_30&products_id=980
etc.. You can take your leftover Romex and strip the outer sheath to use the 'correct' color hook-up wires in the correct gauge for building.
:mug:
 
If you're running wire to the garage, you might consider running 50A wires (typ #8) to let it be used in the future for an electric vehicle, sub panel, high power brewery, etc. Max flexibility.

For the breaker and receptacle, I'd base those on what you need right now. If you link to a specific unit, we can check, but I'm thinking it'll be a 6-20P or 6-15P, so you'll install a 6-20R and a 20A 2-pole gfci breaker. (15A 240V plug can plug into a 20A receptacle, similar to 120V 15A plugs.)

Breaker should be listed for use in your panel. What you have are "GE Type THQL". So perhaps this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-20-A...Breaker-with-Self-Test-THQL2120GFTP/206602328

I'd recommend a Hubbel 6-20R, HBL5461. The letter after the model # is the color, e.g. HBL5461W is white. Leviton brand is a bit cheaper, but will wear out faster.

If hiring an EC to make the connections, they'll have cable fittings and a box on the truck. They might have a coverplate on the truck, particularly if you mention ahead that you've got a simplex 6-20R. (I think this would get a Raco 801C or similar, but not 100% sure.)

(edit: receptacle terminals are sized for #12, so you'd need to size down at the receptacle box if running #8. Worth using a 4"x4"x2" or deeper box to have lots of room, if you can.)
 
Last edited:
Broken Crow said:
A side bonus of buying a roll of Romex, is that should you decide to add an element to your existing kettle;
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/elementkit_tcrip_wl.htm
and build your own controller;
https://www.auberins.com/index.php?...esult&search_in_description=1&keyword=dspr320
https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_30&products_id=980
etc.. You can take your leftover Romex and strip the outer sheath to use the 'correct' color hook-up wires in the correct gauge for building.
:mug:
Click to expand...
Romex is solid conductor wire, and it is best practice to wire control panels with stranded conductor wire, especially if you are using crimp connections on wire ends (which is also best practice.)

Brew on :mug:
 
wepeeler said:
Thanks. I actually like that idea. I'm assuming slots 21 and 23 would work? My dad has done some electrical work, and I'm sure YouTube could help guide me through the easy stuff. What would be an appropriate GFCI? The adapter would be from the new garage outlet to the Grainfather plug?
Click to expand...

If you have no big expansion plans the most cost effective way would be to run a 240V, 20A circuit and use a 6-20R receptacle. The Grainfather would be a direct plug-in.

There have been suggestions to "future proof" by putting in a 30A or 50A 120/240V circuit and I'm not expressly against that. But, going from 12/2 wire to 10/3 or especially 6/3 for a 50A circuit will increase the wire cost by a pretty sizable amount.

For example, a 100ft roll of 12/2 is around $100. 100ft of 6/3 is probably pushing $400.
 
whoaru99 said:
If you have no big expansion plans the most cost effective way would be to run a 240V, 20A circuit and use a 6-20R receptacle. The Grainfather would be a direct plug-in.

There have been suggestions to "future proof" by putting in a 30A or 50A 120/240V circuit and I'm not expressly against that. But, going from 12/2 wire to 10/3 or especially 6/3 for a 50A circuit will increase the wire cost by a pretty sizable amount.
Click to expand...
I have no future plans to upgrade, at least where I am living now. I also took a look at SS Brewtech's Electric 1V: https://www.ssbrewtech.com/products/ebrewing-1v-system?variant=16553330147399 Looks like a Male L6-30 plug (Looks like I'd need a 30amp GFCI)...I already have everything else SS, they're just very pricey overall. BUT, I love the idea of the Grainfather. Looks sick!
 
wepeeler said:
I have no future plans to upgrade, at least where I am living now. I also took a look at SS Brewtech's Electric 1V: https://www.ssbrewtech.com/products/ebrewing-1v-system?variant=16553330147399 Looks like a Male L6-30 plug (Looks like I'd need a 30amp GFCI)...I already have everything else SS, they're just very pricey overall. BUT, I love the idea of the Grainfather. Looks sick!
Click to expand...
Nevermind. The SS Brewtech page linked didn't say anything about there being two power input cords for the controller. What a silly design!

Only the element has an L6-30 (3-wire) plug on it. The controller has to have a four wire connection because it provides both 240V and 120V outputs.

Brew on :mug:
 
Last edited:
doug293cz said:
Only the element has an L6-30 plug on it. The controller has to have a four wire connection because it provides both 240V and 120V outputs.

Brew on :mug:
Click to expand...

I didn't see the 1V system, but if it's based on the eController that has separate 240V (L6-30) and 120V (5-15) inputs.
 
doug293cz said:
Only the element has an L6-30 (3-wire) plug on it. The controller has to have a four wire connection because it provides both 240V and 120V outputs.

Brew on :mug:
Click to expand...

whoaru99 said:
I didn't see the 1V system, but if it's based on the eController that has separate 240V (L6-30) and 120V (5-15) inputs.
Click to expand...
The main SS Brewtech plug is only 240V. The 2 accessory receptacles are 120V.

From Brulosophy: Extending from the bottom of the controller unit are a male L6-30 power cord that gets plugged into the 240v socket, a female L6-30 cord that receives the plug from the kettle, a standard 110v grounded plug, and a female 3.5 mm jack that connects to the temperature probe in the kettle.
 
I really appreciate everyone chiming in. Not sure if I'm more lost now on what I want to do, but I did learn a bit about electricity!
 
wepeeler said:
Link me to the hardware por favor
Click to expand...
Spa panels appear to have gotten more expensive since I last looked at them. Here's one of the cheaper ones at HD. Note that it is quite large - 10.5" x 7.75" x 4". You can find cheaper ones on Amazon, e-Bay, etc., but many of these use European style "GFCI"s that do not meet US code requirements (US code requires a 5mA fault current trip level, but European ones only provide a 30mA fault current trip level.) The higher European trip levels can result in a significant, and potentially dangerous, shock.

Here's how to wire a spa panel for a four wire input and output. If you only have three wires, then the yellow wires (would actually be white in a 4-wire cable) are just left out. If you only have three wires, you won't have a red wire, so you use the white one for what's red in the diagram.

1714339247865.jpeg

Different brands will have the connections in different places, and you need to be sure you know which is the ground bus bar (connected to the box) and the neutral bus bar (isolated from the box.)

You can put a 50A GFCI downstream from a service panel breaker with no issues. The 50A GFCI will still trip at 5mA fault current, and the circuit wiring is protected by the 30A breaker in the service panel.

Brew on :mug:
 
wepeeler said:
Thanks. I actually like that idea. I'm assuming slots 21 and 23 would work? My dad has done some electrical work, and I'm sure YouTube could help guide me through the easy stuff. What would be an appropriate GFCI? The adapter would be from the new garage outlet to the Grainfather plug?

View attachment 847489
Click to expand...
It may or may not work out for you ... They need to be out of phase ... 50/50 chance. :)

I needed a sub panel because I have no vacant slots. Not a big expense relative to the whole job. Got two Nema 6-30 outlets, one outside, one in the garage.
 

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