Not sure of next steps...

[italarican]

For my 3rd batch I'm trying a milk stout. I reduced the wort temperature to 75 before adding 2 gallons of pre-boiled water that had since been sitting in the refrigerator. I used 2 slap packs of Wyeast Irish Ale on the advice of my LHBS. OG was right on target (1.072).

Fermentation is a big challenge for me. I live in a NYC apartment with ridiculous heat and have no thermometer (the one I have is cheap and doesn't go below 70). I decided to use the swamp cooler method of filling my brew pot with water and switching out ice packs. Fermentation started in less than 12 hours and slowed within 48. Once my apartment started getting ridiculously hot, I was afraid 2 ice packs was not going to do the job, so I started a system of switching in 4 ice packs each morning and night.

I checked my gravity on Day 14: 1.031. A little higher than I expected since the calculated FG was to be 1.019. At Day 18, it was still 1.031. I decided to let the beer warm a bit to see if my yeast would wake up a bit, so I went from 4 ice packs down to 1 and continued my 12 hour switching schedule. Samples I took on Day 14/17 day tasted great: clean coffee and cream flavor. On Day 21 (today), the fermenter smelled like fumes, and a really thin, almost silky skin was on top of the beer (see picture; the darker splotch is where I pierced the skin when checking the gravity). The sample was still at 1.031 and, although not terrible, was slightly hot in the smell and flavor.

I'm not sure where to go now. I've bumped the ice packs up to 2 for now. Do I need to repitch with a starter? I'm hopeful that hot aroma will eventually fade, but I'm not as optimistic as I would have been if I'd detected signs of fermentation again.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Hmm that's not a great sign....

What are your cleaning/sanitization practices? (i.e. What do you use for each? Do you properly sanitize when you check temp and gravity? How often are you taking the top off and exposing your beer to the air outside? etc)

 

[duboman]

Sorry to say but that looks infected

 

[italarican]

Hmm that's not a great sign....

What are your cleaning/sanitization practices? (i.e. What do you use for each? Do you properly sanitize when you check temp and gravity? How often are you taking the top off and exposing your beer to the air outside? etc)

I have a bucket filled with diluted Starsan solution that I replace whenever it begins to get cloudy. To check gravity, I have a baster that I clean in between with basic hot water/soap, let dry, and then sanitize in the Starsan. After taking the reading I immediately rinse it out with hot water and a bit of non-scented dish soap. Same deal with my thermometer. The only times I've opened the bucket have been to check the gravity, so it was only open on Day 14, 18, and 21 for about 2 minutes.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

I don't like the loo of those bubbles in the film. Film and film covered bubbles aren't good.... unless you like sours.... which many including myself do. I'd let it ride, your bucket's toast anyway, why not see if you can get one last good batch out of it before it's layed to rest?

 

[italarican]

Sorry to say but that looks infected

If this is the case, would bottling sooner than later give me a better chance of salvaging this? I'm trying to weigh the pros and cons of waiting and trying to get something closer to the projected FG and risking a potential infection making the whole batch undrinkable.

 

[BBL_Brewer]

I don't have any experience with infections, but that does look like a pellicle forming from other pics I've seen. Just FYI for future batches, don't take your LHBS advice and buy two packs of yeast. Make a starter with one pack and use that instead. $16 worth of yeast is pretty salty for one 5 gallon batch.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

If this is the case, would bottling sooner than later give me a better chance of salvaging this? I'm trying to weigh the pros and cons of waiting and trying to get something closer to the projected FG and risking a potential infection making the whole batch undrinkable.

Noooooo no no no no.

Bottling sooner rather than later would most likely be disasterous (read: bottle bombs.)

Wild yeasts and other microorganisms involved in souring of beers can ferment sugars that normal brewing yeasts can't. They also do it much much slower. That means that if you bottle a beer that seems done for a non-sour beer and it indeed has these souring organisms, they will slowly eat these left-over sugars, resulting in too much carbonation and eventually explosions.

It's doubly worse because your FG is so high.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Just FYI for future batches, don't take your LHBS advice and buy two packs of yeast. Make a starter with one pack and use that instead. $16 worth of yeast is pretty salty for one 5 gallon batch.

HA! I thought the same thing when I read OP's statement "I used 2 slap packs of Wyeast Irish Ale on the advice of my LHBS."

Of course they're going to advise you to spend more money

 

[italarican]

I don't like the loo of those bubbles in the film. Film and film covered bubbles aren't good.... unless you like sours.... which many including myself do. I'd let it ride, your bucket's toast anyway, why not see if you can get one last good batch out of it before it's layed to rest?

I was afraid of that. I love sours, although I'm not sure how I'd like a coffee flavored sour.

It's sounding like there was more likely a sanitation issue in checking my gravity rather than an overall temperature issue?

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Noooooo no no no no.

Bottling sooner rather than later would most likely be disasterous (read: bottle bombs.)

Wild yeasts and other microorganisms involved in souring of beers can ferment sugars that normal brewing yeasts can't. They also do it much much slower. That means that if you bottle a beer that seems done for a non-sour beer and it indeed has these souring organisms, they will slowly eat these left-over sugars, resulting in too much carbonation and eventually explosions.

It's doubly worse because your FG is so high.

Totally. Let it ride and don't package before the gravity stabilized. Sour beer's still beer, you still need to let it ferment completely before packaging.

I was afraid of that. I love sours, although I'm not sure how I'd like a coffee flavored sour.

Only one way to find out!

 

[italarican]

Ok, I guess the plan is to revisit my cleaning methods. First batch (brown ale), 100% new equipment, came out perfectly. Second batch (wheat) had a slight nail polish aroma in the fermenting bucket that thankfully didn't come through in the aroma or flavor of the actual beer (at least not that I notice). I bought a new bucket for this batch, but a similar, worse issue appears to have taken shape.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

How do you care for your buckets? Are you being sure not to scratch the inside surface?

 

[italarican]

How do you care for your buckets? Are you being sure not to scratch the inside surface?

I believe I've been careful with them. I clean with the soft side of a sponge I only use with my brewing equipment and don't store anything in them other than beer or sanitizing solution. I haven't noticed any scratches, and the fermenting bucket for this batch was brand new. I rinsed it with warm water and a bit of dish soap first and then sanitizer.

 

[Draken]

HA! I thought the same thing when I read OP's statement "I used 2 slap packs of Wyeast Irish Ale on the advice of my LHBS."

Of course they're going to advise you to spend more money

While the LHBS did suggest the more expensive method, it is technically easier than making a starter (I know starters are easy,not the point). It's also probably good advice considering the starting gravity, so while they should have said either make a starter or use two packs, their advice is solid.

Temp probably did not help. Your apartment is probably crawling with fun bugs. Keeping everything cooler you give the yeast that prefer those lower temps the advantage, higher temps the yeast start to stress and other bugs can get hold.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

t's also probably good advice considering the starting gravity, so while they should have said either make a starter or use two packs, their advice is solid.

Eh, even if those packs were made the day before, ~180 billion cells isn't really sufficient for a 1.072 brew. The LHBS gave the advice that helped them, not the brewer here. According to MrMalty, if the yeast had a date of 6/1/12 (95% viability), you'd need 2.8 packs without a starter.

 

[Draken]

Eh, even if those packs were made the day before, ~180 billion cells isn't really sufficient for a 1.072 brew. The LHBS gave the advice that helped them, not the brewer here. According to MrMalty, if the yeast had a date of 6/1/12 (95% viability), you'd need 2.8 packs without a starter.

I didn't run the numbers..

 

[jonmohno]

I would rack from underneath this carfully after a few more weeks.Ive had a few batches like this.They remained safely bottled and not sour and turned out quite well.It may not be the same type as yours but i did get a thin white skin kinda flakey looking but almost impossible to scoop out.Im not shure if this is part of s-33 or t-58 way of fermetation also because ive read that there is a certain trace amount of lacto in the yeast or something and maybe oxygen got in and enhanced this from the yeast?

The thing is smell and sample it before you bottle.Another thing that worked for me is to drink them last bottled first and just keep an eye on them and keep them in a cool secluded contained spot. I think whatever i have lived on top only and needed oxygen because ive seen this in some bottles but it even disappeard in some of them(maybe due to lack of oxygen?)Never had gushers or problems and i still have bottles i pull to drink from these questionable batches going close to a year.

Ive used the same tubing racking equipement from racking those batches but cleaned/sanitized them thouroughly and it never effected my other batches.If your bucket was well maintained(not throwing stuff in it to scratch it) it should be fine otherwise just get another one.

 

[italarican]

One week later update: I wouldn't know we were a week later if I didn't have a calendar. Gravity is exactly the same, film on top looks exactly the same (even the same bubble and opening where I originally pierced the film to get a gravity reading the week before), and tastes exactly the same (a touch hot but still a milk stout).

We're at 30 days now, same gravity for at least 16 days, 9 days since the likely infection was noticeable, and not much has appeared to change in that time. How long should I wait to bottle?

 

[tre9er]

My most recent wit had a film on the top that looked semi-tenuous but I can say it's fine. There is ever-so-slight of a sour hint to it but I think it's perfectly drinkable. Gravity is stable, I say give it a shot. If you were kegging it would be better cause you could get it in cooler temperatures and likely prevent further propagation of a potential infection, but cest la vie.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

I'm with tre9er. Gravity hasn't changed so bottle that sucker up!