Saison Questions

[bruhaha]

Saison styles are interesting, but for some reason have never been on my radar to try brewing. I'd possibly like to try brewing a Saison, but they sound complicated.

I think the grain and hop bill looks pretty standard, so it must be the yeast strain and fermentation temps that makes this beer what it is. I do AG BIAB and have temp controlled freezers if needed. My outdoor brew cave is not cooled with AC, and it is 95F here in the south. My brew cave temps hover around the mid 80's since I was lacto souring a wort recently and was tracking the temps.

Any suggestions about the fermentation temps I should follow?

Is dry Saison yeast acceptable (summer shipping temps) or is it mandatory to use liquid from a starter?

Thanks for a Saison 101 primer!

 

[m00ps]

your options are limited for dry saison yeasts. Its basically belle saison and a mangrove jack strain. Both can safely go hot

I would pitch at normal temps and let it free rise. You can do this in your house at room temps or in the hot shed. I dont like the idea of the variation from night to day though, gave me band-aid flavors once

 

[MagicMatt]

I am doing a Saison with Belle Saison dry yeast. It supposedly does wonders for this style. I generally pitch below 70°F and hold there for a day or so, then just let it sit at ambient temps (~75**°F) in a closet. The temp of the wort usually hovers in the low 80's this way, and seems to be perfect. You can also use your freezer and temp controller and unplug the freezer and use a heat source ( heat rope, heating pad, or the light-bulb-in-a-paint-can route). If I need to go hotter than ambient, I use a large blue "drink tub" and set the carboy in it, fill the tub with water to the level of the wort, and then use an aquarium heater and water circulator to keep the temps as high as 92°F.

 

[bruhaha]

your options are limited for dry saison yeasts. Its basically belle saison and a mangrove jack strain. Both can safely go hot

I would pitch at normal temps and let it free rise. You can do this in your house at room temps or in the hot shed. I dont like the idea of the variation from night to day though, gave me band-aid flavors once

Like you, I am concerned when anything I am fermenting has a roller coaster ride of temps. Would a dry yeast strain possibly allow me the "set and forget" process where I could say set the temp controller at 75F and let it ferment well under control?

Another option I have is to bring it in my house where the temp is stable with AC at 74F. Do either of these options seem viable with a strain of dry yeast aforementioned?

A third option would be to use a fermwrap and freezer with one of my Inkbirds. I figure I could maintain 80F, but I've never gone this route before so it is a sort of a guess.

 

[bruhaha]

I am doing a Saison with Belle Saison dry yeast. It supposedly does wonders for this style. I generally pitch below 70°F and hold there for a day or so, then just let it sit at ambient temps (~75**°F) in a closet. The temp of the wort usually hovers in the low 80's this way, and seems to be perfect. You can also use your freezer and temp controller and unplug the freezer and use a heat source ( heat rope, heating pad, or the light-bulb-in-a-paint-can route). If I need to go hotter than ambient, I use a large blue "drink tub" and set the carboy in it, fill the tub with water to the level of the wort, and then use an aquarium thermometer and water circulator to keep the temps as high as 92°F.

I think my fermwrap and freezer method (above post) would work with your style last mentioned.

I'll use a thermowell for the probe, so the real wort temp will be targeted. Would I set my controller at 80F after 65F pitch and free ride to 80F?

 

[teamcoaster]

You're right about the grain bill. Use what ever assortment of grains you like (or that you have on hand). I go simple on the grains, mostly pale with about 10-15% wheat and a handful of crystal thrown in for color. Mash low, add honey at flameout and chill to about 75F and pitch.

For me, it's the yeast that defines saison. I have tried several saison yeast varieties but now use only 3724. The strain is just as quirky as the manufacturer says but if you pitch relatively high, let the temps rise up to about 90F and hold it there, in 3-4 weeks you'll have what I think of as an excellent beer.

Initial taste impression is sweet funky fruit, pepper and very dry at the finish. I've been hopping with citra, so I definitely get the grapefruity nose. The beer leaves you a bit thirsty so you want more. Good with food. If you add sugar or honey as I do, it's easy to get the ABV up in the 8-9% range.

YMMV and that's okay. It's a great style. My favorite.

Doc

 

[jerbrew]

Saison has to be one of my favorite styles to brew and drink. Like everyone said the grain bill is super simple I use about 65% pale 25% rye and 10% wheat. I love the dryness i get from the rye and never worry about color too much.

I just did a sorachi ace saison with that grain bill and 3711 mashed at 148. 3711 is a beast, i've never had it finish above 1.004. I start it out around 68F and let it free rise. 3711 doesn't have as much character as some other saison yeasts but I like the beer i've made with it. It has a subtle citrus flavor to it and I think works great in giving me a dry saison without the mouthfeel of water.

I think @teamcoster said it great, A good saison should leave you thirsty and wanting to drink another glass. And it's really easy to make "put you to bed beer" as i call anything over 8%.

 

[bruhaha]

You're right about the grain bill. Use what ever assortment of grains you like (or that you have on hand). I go simple on the grains, mostly pale with about 10-15% wheat and a handful of crystal thrown in for color. Mash low, add honey at flameout and chill to about 75F and pitch.

For me, it's the yeast that defines saison. I have tried several saison yeast varieties but now use only 3724. The strain is just as quirky as the manufacturer says but if you pitch relatively high, let the temps rise up to about 90F and hold it there, in 3-4 weeks you'll have what I think of as an excellent beer.

Initial taste impression is sweet funky fruit, pepper and very dry at the finish. I've been hopping with citra, so I definitely get the grapefruity nose. The beer leaves you a bit thirsty so you want more. Good with food. If you add sugar or honey as I do, it's easy to get the ABV up in the 8-9% range.

YMMV and that's okay. It's a great style. My favorite.

Doc

Thanks, Doc. The beer supply house I use is kinda close to you...Alternative Beverage in Belmont NC. I live near Hartsville SC.

I have on hand: German Pils, Breiss 2 row, Vienna, Munich, Melanoidin, Crystal 20L and white wheat

Also: Tettnanger, Hallertau and Saaz


Anything you see in my inventory that will make a decent Saison?

THANKS!!

 

[teamcoaster]

Bruhaha

I just pm'd you with my recipe. You have on hand everything you need to brew a saison. Decide which hops you want for bittering (my standby is german magnum) and pick from your stash your favor aroma hops for finishing.


I get most of my ingredients from Alt Bev; it's about 15 minute drive from my house. Good folks and good prices there. It's fun to root around the warehouse. You never know what you might find.

Let me know how yours turns out.

Doc

Thanks, Doc. The beer supply house I use is kinda close to you...Alternative Beverage in Belmont NC. I live near Hartsville SC.

I have on hand: German Pils, Breiss 2 row, Vienna, Munich, Melanoidin, Crystal 20L and white wheat

Also: Tettnanger, Hallertau and Saaz


Anything you see in my inventory that will make a decent Saison?

THANKS!!

 

[bruhaha]

Bruhaha

I just pm'd you with my recipe. You have on hand everything you need to brew a saison. Decide which hops you want for bittering (my standby is german magnum) and pick from your stash your favor aroma hops for finishing.


I get most of my ingredients from Alt Bev; it's about 15 minute drive from my house. Good folks and good prices there. It's fun to root around the warehouse. You never know what you might find.

Let me know how yours turns out.

Doc

Doc, All I am missing is the yeast. Once I get that I'll give this a whirl. I think I'll pitch rehydrated dry yeast at 65 and let it free ride to 75 and hold it there for the duration. My guess is that if I ferment it at 80F, that will throw more of those farmhouse flavors that makes it rustic. I'll try two batches back to back, one at 75F and the other at 80F and compare them. I keg anyway and have a good amount of temp controlled space.

Many thanks!!

 

[catdaddy66]

I have made two saisons and used Belle Saison yeast for both. They came out amazing! Dry and refreshing, I have decided to make a saison one of my house beers. I will need a new batch in a month or so.

 

[madscientist451]

Doc, All I am missing is the yeast. Once I get that I'll give this a whirl. I think I'll pitch rehydrated dry yeast at 65 and let it free ride to 75 and hold it there for the duration. My guess is that if I ferment it at 80F, that will throw more of those farmhouse flavors that makes it rustic. I'll try two batches back to back, one at 75F and the other at 80F and compare them. I keg anyway and have a good amount of temp controlled space.

Many thanks!!

I don't think letting one rise to 75 and the other to 80 will make that much difference. For a real comparison, keep one batch at regular ale temperature, below 70 and let the other one free rise. You can even blend the two together if you get too much "saison" character for your taste.
Some traditional farmhouse saisons were brewed in the winter and spring to be ready for the farm workers in the summer, so not all saisons need to have the high temperature fermentation.
Some like the funky saison character and some like to keep it subdued.