soda kegerator

[techpro2004]

Hi everyone, I am new here. Would you believe, I never had a beer or any alcohol in my life. In any event, I recently built a kegerator to dispense diet soda. It works perfectly except the soda has barely any fizz to it. I have my regulator set to 35 psi and I even let it sit overnight. It dispenses just fine, it is just flat. Any advice is welcome (other than drink a beer) I based it on this kit here (https://www.kegco.com/beer-dispensing/conversion-kits/home-brew-kits/kc2khbblk-5t/) and a refrigerator from my local wholesale club store. I am using bag-in-box syrups. Thanks.

 

[IslandLizard]

Welcome to HBT!

It takes 2-3 weeks to carbonate a keg using the "set and forget" method you're using. Forced carbonation by shaking or rolling (rocking) the keg can carbonate it to 30-45 psi within 10-15 minutes. The soda being at low temperature (28-34F) speeds it along, as cold liquids can absorb more CO2 and quicker.

To dispense at those higher pressures for soda you'll need much longer (and thinner) dispensing lines than the "standard" 5' ones that come with your kegerator kits. This will give more resistance, preventing carbonation from coming out of solution when pouring. For thinner, longer line lengths consider into using 4 mm EVA Barrier lines and corresponding Duotight or John Guest push fittings, although they'll need MFL connectors to connect to.

 

[techpro2004]

Thanks for the advice. I thought for sure I would be laughed at for building a kegerator for soda. I have been tasting my soda throughout the day and I noticed as the day goes on, the more fizz it has. It is still not up to normal soda standards but it is improving. About those longer/thinner lines you mentioned, How do they connect to my ball lock keg fittings and my tap which is mounted through a hole I drilled in the front door of my refrigerator. I believe the shaft on those measured 3/4 inch. I do not want to put something of a different size through there and I am not keen on throwing out parts that work. Thanks

 

[IslandLizard]

About those longer/thinner lines you mentioned, How do they connect to my ball lock keg fittings and my tap which is mounted through a hole I drilled in the front door of my refrigerator. I believe the shaft on those measured 3/4 inch. I do not want to put something of a different size through there and I am not keen on throwing out parts that work.

The 4 and 5 mm (ID) EVA Barrier lines connect to 8mm (OD) push-in adapters from John Guest, Duotight, etc.

One side of the line connects to this MFL adapter, which in turn connects to a 1/4" MFL (threaded) keg QD like these or these. You need to buy 1 of these for each connected keg, so 2 in your case.
Use the 2 barbed liquid QDs you got with the kit for something else, like a jumper hose, picnic taps, keg transfer tube, etc.
The other end of the line connects to the shank with this 7/8" shank adapter.
Other sellers, such as MoreBeer, Birdman have similar products.

Your beer shafts ("shanks") are 7/8" diameter, they stay in place.
Only the lines and connectors get replaced with something much, much better.
Frankly, I have never understood why keg places like KegCo sell kegerator kits with 5' lines. That's way too short, even for beer served at 10-12 psi and 34-36F.

 

[techpro2004]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. It appears to be carbonating on it's own. It is just taking a little longer than I thought it would. I have a strict deadline to finish this by friday morning. Also, I am a computer nerd not a plumber. I think I will give it a few more days and see where I am there. Thanks for all of your help.

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. It appears to be carbonating on it's own. It is just taking a little longer than I thought it would. I have a strict deadline to finish this by friday morning. Also, I am a computer nerd not a plumber. I think I will give it a few more days and see where I am there. Thanks for all of your help.

YVW!
As I said before, you can easily speed up carbonation by putting 20-30 psi on the regulator, laying the keg on its side on a towel, with the gas QD pointing up (!) and rolling/rocking the keg back and forth 60-90° each way, while gas is streaming in. This will carbonate the soda (or beer) within 10 minutes. When the gas stops streaming in, set it up straight, put it back in the kegerator and keep 20-30 psi on it for time being, it will absorb (dissolve) the CO2 even more, and you'll have good soda to serve on Friday. Always open taps fully when pouring. It will be foamy due to the less than perfect low restriction (short lines).

http://www.mikesoltys.com/2012/09/17/determining-proper-hose-length-for-your-kegerator/

 

[Positronic_Matrix]

I have Diet Coke in my kegerator. I bought a bunch of inexpensive 2 L bottles on sale and filled up a 5 gallon corny keg. It went in carbonated, so after it cooled it was ready to drink. Unfortunately, the Diet Coke went through a line that was previously used for beer so it didn’t taste very good. After the holidays, I’m going to get a dedicated line for soda and carbonated water.

In addition to the method described above of rocking the keg back and forth, you can also use a carbonation stone. This is how I carbonate my sparkling water quickly. Search for it on Amazon. One word of warning, if you buy an inexpensive stone on one of those modified corny lids, check that lid carefully for leaks. I lost a brand new 5 lbs. CO2 tank as a result.

 

[techpro2004]

Thanks for all of the advice. If letting it sit does not work, I will definitely look into the stone option. Btw, with a username like "Positronic_Matrix" shouldn't you use a picture of Data instead of Spock. I really recommend you look into bag-in-box syrups instead of 2L bottles. It works out to be cheaper and there is much less weight to carry home from the store. You can get them at sams club or your local beverage distributor or even ask a restaurant to add it to their next order. You will need a tap valve for it from amazon but those are cheap and reusable. Different brands of syrup use different connectors. You also may want to look into a under sink water filter. This way if you have a faucet with a hose on it, you can easily fill your keg. I used 3 quarts syrup and the rest water in my 5 gallon kegs.

 

[Positronic_Matrix]

Thanks for all of the advice. If letting it sit does not work, I will definitely look into the stone option. Btw, with a username like "Positronic_Matrix" shouldn't you use a picture of Data instead of Spock. I really recommend you look into bag-in-box syrups instead of 2L bottles. It works out to be cheaper and there is much less weight to carry home from the store. You can get them at sams club or your local beverage distributor or even ask a restaurant to add it to their next order. You will need a tap valve for it from amazon but those are cheap and reusable. Different brands of syrup use different connectors. You also may want to look into a under sink water filter. This way if you have a faucet with a hose on it, you can easily fill your keg. I used 3 quarts syrup and the rest water in my 5 gallon kegs.

You’re not the first person to tell me to fix my avatar, so I finally changed it up. There was some resistance from my wife on buying boxed syrup. The 2 L bottles were an experiment to see if I could get the family interested in a new serving format. I had to put it on hold though, due to the beer taste. One drink of that and my plans would be foiled.

 

[techpro2004]

You should only change it if it is right for you. That being said, I like the picture of data and spot. The good thing about buying boxed syrup is if it tastes like beer in your kegerator you can always go to the store and buy a case of seltzer to mix it in. Also sams club is good on returns (just tell them it tastes funny). I am using all brand new equipment (never touched beer) so I do not have an issue with odd flavors. Maybe someone else here can tell you how to fix it. The one thing I heard in my research (keep in mind i am a novice) is if you use soda and beer in the same system the soda will ferment (maybe someone can confirm that). Maybe you could just add extra syrup and cover up the beer taste. How sensitive is her sense of taste?

 

[IslandLizard]

If you don't clean or at least flush your line between beer use and soda use, you'll taste the previous on in the other. But after the initial pour that flushes out the beer, the amount of beer flavor that sticks to the inside of the line is very small, I doubt you can taste that in say coke.

Now birch beer and the like are notorious for owning the line, it's very difficult to get that flavor out. Another reason to ditch the PVC lines and switch to barrier lines. The inner liner is much more impervious to O2 and flavors as well. My Ultra 235 lines have a very slick PET liner, the plastic soda bottles are made out of. Flavor neutrality after birch beer/root beer remains a challenge, IMO.

 

[techpro2004]

new problem. I am set up with 2 flavors coke zero sugar and willtec diet orange. The coke pours fine, the orange is all foam. I tried clamping the line partially to restrict flow but no luck. I checked my lines and I have foam in my lines all the way from the tap to the keg. Could I have a bad keg? Any advice is appreciated. thanks

 

[IslandLizard]

new problem. I am set up with 2 flavors coke zero sugar and willtec diet orange. The coke pours fine, the orange is all foam. I tried clamping the line partially to restrict flow but no luck. I checked my lines and I have foam in my lines all the way from the tap to the keg. Could I have a bad keg? Any advice is appreciated. thanks

Are these used kegs? Have you replaced the inner o-rings?

What you describe sounds like a leaky liquid diptube o-ring. That allows gas to enter directly from the headspace into the dispensing line, causing foaming. First make sure the post is tight. If that doesn't fix it, replace the o-ring.
Those diptube o-rings usually have a "flat" profile, but regular round profile o-rings are fine to use. For that position get the fat ones if you can.

 

[techpro2004]

They are brand new kegs. I will contact the company

 

[techpro2004]

I just called the company, they are sending me a replacement keg. Thanks

 

[IslandLizard]

I just called the company, they are sending me a replacement keg. Thanks

Whoa! How did you get them to do that?
Sounds like a big effort for something that can be easily remediated. Remove post, check diptube flange/flare, check o-ring, make sure poppet is seated right, tighten post.

Have you taken those kegs/posts apart since you got them? Even to clean them?

 

[techpro2004]

I told them about the gasket. They offered me a new gasket. I told them I am a novice and do not know what I am doing and that I was afraid to modify anything, then they offered me a new keg. I have not taken any kegs apart and I thought I only had to rinse out the interior and flush the lines if I changed flavors. Keep in mind I am using it for diet soda, no sugar, no yeast. Also there is a 1 year warranty on it.

 

[IslandLizard]

I told them about the gasket. They offered me a new gasket. I told them I am a novice and do not know what I am doing and that I was afraid to modify anything, then they offered me a new keg. I have not taken any kegs apart and I thought I only had to rinse out the interior and flush the lines if I changed flavors. Keep in mind I am using it for diet soda, no sugar, no yeast. Also there is a 1 year warranty on it.

I didn't say it is the gasket, it is a possible cause of what you described. But on a new keg those o-rings should be pristine. It could simply need tightening the post(s).

Chances are, at some point in the (near) future you'll want/need to familiarize yourself with taking kegs apart for thorough cleaning and routine maintenance.

I have no experience with diet soda in kegs, and what kind of residue they leave behind over time in the various nooks and crannies of a corny keg. They may very well rinse out clean just with water.

I do know 2 used kegs I have had been used with root beer syrup and they kept smelling like that until I scrubbed them thoroughly with an alkaline cleaner (PBW) and Bar Keepers Friend (BKF), including the inside of the dip tubes, the lid, boiled the small parts such as the PRV, poppets, etc. and replaced all the (5) o-rings.

 

[bracconiere]

Welcome to HBT!

It takes 2-3 weeks to carbonate a keg using the "set and forget" method you're using. Forced carbonation by shaking or rolling (rocking) the keg can carbonate it to 30-45 psi within 10-15 minutes. The soda being at low temperature (28-34F) speeds it along, as cold liquids can absorb more CO2 and quicker.

To dispense at those higher pressures for soda you'll need much longer (and thinner) dispensing lines than the "standard" 5' ones that come with your kegerator kits. This will give more resistance, preventing carbonation from coming out of solution when pouring. For thinner, longer line lengths consider into using 4 mm EVA Barrier lines and corresponding Duotight or John Guest push fittings, although they'll need MFL connectors to connect to.

coudn't the OP use one of those fancy resistance taps, and QDs i've heard about? i've been thinking about getting one myself....(or two)

 

[techpro2004]

I understand it is possible and not definite and I told them that the expert says it sounds like the gasket. I did not say you said it is the gasket. I also remember when setting up the keg, I was pounding on the top of the ball lock connector to get it connected. I did not know to pull up on the base of it. Is it possible that I damaged the connector also?

 

[IslandLizard]

I understand it is possible and not definite and I told them that the expert says it sounds like the gasket. I did not say you said it is the gasket. I also remember when setting up the keg, I was pounding on the top of the ball lock connector to get it connected. I did not know to pull up on the base of it. Is it possible that I damaged the connector also?

Pounding with a tool, hammer?
It's possible to damage a (plastic) QD, sure. I pulled one apart trying to remove it after I had first forced it onto the wrong post. But they're more likely to break than the stainless post you tried to force it on.

Have you tried to first slightly loosen (~1/4 turn), then re-tighten the post(s)?

When doing so, preferably use a box wrench (ring spanner) or a deep socket of the correct size for the actual posts in use. There are a few different sizes out there. An open wrench can be used in a pinch. Just be careful you don't hurt yourself or anyone around you when it suddenly gives or moves. Sometimes a little "tap/bump" is needed to break them loose.

 

[techpro2004]

no tool just by hand. As I said, I am afraid to modify any component of this system. I will wait on the new keg if that does not do it, I will try a new quick connect. thanks.

 

[IslandLizard]

I am afraid to modify any component of this system.

I understand your hesitation to touch anything, but on "homebrewer," "home soda maker," and even "pro-brewer/soda making" level, you're going to have to deal with maintenance of some sort, being it cleaning, sanitizing, or mechanical issues that crop up.

Research, and learn! HBT is a great forum for that, as is Google search.

Kegco did you a great favor by sending you a new keg, I'm quite speechless about that, but they're known to stand behind their products. But eventually, you'll be "on your own." But HBT may have you covered, I'd say.

I'm going to re-iterate:

Chances are, at some point in the (near) future you'll want/need to familiarize yourself with taking kegs apart...

 

[techpro2004]

I just opened the keg to dump it and switch to the new one and I noticed there was foam inside the keg. I am stumped. is this normal? What does this mean? I have the gas currently shut off and the orange tap is disconnected. I figured before I filled the new one, I would ask here. Thanks. By the way, the willtec diet orange is a cheap syrup and I am starting to think it does not have the same quality as coke or pepsi.

 

[techpro2004]

So It turns out it was the low quality syrup and not the keg or quick connects. On a side note, I am drinking a lot of diet soda and am going through a 5lb co2 tank every 2-3 weeks. Is there any downside to hoking up a air compressor instead. Keep in mind this is diet soda not beer so I don't have to worry about yeast or sugar. Thanks.

 

[Dr_Jeff]

if you are going through that much CO2, you may have a leak somewhere. You should get more than that.
How many kegs of soda is that?

You need the CO2 for it to go into solution and carbonate the soda, otherwise it will be flat if you use compressed air.

 

[techpro2004]

It is a 2x5 gallon keg system and I am refilling both kegs every week and a quarter. I have to drink a lot due to medical reasons. Thanks for the heads up about the air compressor.

 

[IslandLizard]

I have to drink a lot due to medical reasons. Thanks for the heads up about the air compressor.

Not that's any of my business, but wouldn't you be better off drinking plain or slightly mineralized carbonated water, instead of loading your body with phosphoric/citric acid, sugar, artificial flavorings and sweeteners?

 

[IslandLizard]

I am drinking a lot of diet soda and am going through a 5lb co2 tank every 2-3 weeks.

if you are going through that much CO2, you may have a leak somewhere. You should get more than that.
How many kegs of soda is that?

You need the CO2 for it to go into solution and carbonate the soda, otherwise it will be flat if you use compressed air.

1 pound of CO2 in your tank yields 64 US gallons at atm. pressure (~15 psi).
Thus a full 5# tank should yield around 320 gallons of CO2 gas (at 15 psi).

At 39F and 28 psi your soda can hold 4 volumes of dissolved CO2. There are carbonation charts for this.

That fully carbonated 5 gallon keg of soda at 4 volumes contains 5 x 4 = 20 gallons of dissolved CO2 gas. As well as compressed CO2 in the headspace at whatever pressure you set your regulator at.

At a (regulator) pressure of 28 psi it takes another 3 x 5 = 15 gallons of CO2 to push it all out.
So to carbonate and dispense that keg of soda, 20+15 = 35 gallons of CO2 gas (15 psi) are needed.
320/35 = 9 kegs worth.

At a usage rate of 2 kegs/10 days that's a 5# CO2 refill/swap every 45 days, or about every 6 weeks (45/7).

 

[IslandLizard]

These numbers are a bit different. Not sure why.
https://www.kegoutlet.com/how-many-liters-does-a-5lb-co2-tank-carbonate.html

 

[techpro2004]

Yes I should be having water instead of diet soda, however it is easier to get down something with flavor in the quantities I drink. There also is the cost/weight issues with mineral water. It is easier to carry a keg 5 ft from my sink to kegerator using a dolly then it is 8 cases of water through the store in my car and up the stairs. As far as co2 goes, I have thought my supplier is shorting me. My gauge always shows yellow, never green. My supplier says I cant go by the gauge as it is a liquid and I have to go by weight. I have not weighed my tank. Should I next time?

 

[Dr_Jeff]

There is a tare weight stamped on the bottle, usually up near the valve on the shoulder of the bottle. Not all bottles weigh the same. But what is stamped in the tank should be accurate.

Set the full bottle on a scale, subtract the tare weight, and you know how much co2 is in the bottle. It should have five pounds or a bit over.

 

[techpro2004]

I will try that the next time I get it filled. Thanks. Will a bathroom scale do?

 

[Chefmet]

Thanks for the advice. I thought for sure I would be laughed at for building a kegerator for soda. I have been tasting my soda throughout the day and I noticed as the day goes on, the more fizz it has. It is still not up to normal soda standards but it is improving. About those longer/thinner lines you mentioned, How do they connect to my ball lock keg fittings and my tap which is mounted through a hole I drilled in the front door of my refrigerator. I believe the shaft on those measured 3/4 inch. I do not want to put something of a different size through there and I am not keen on throwing out parts that work. Thanks

 

[Chefmet]

What kind of faucet are you dispensing soda with

 

[beren]

Yes I should be having water instead of diet soda, however it is easier to get down something with flavor in the quantities I drink. There also is the cost/weight issues with mineral water. It is easier to carry a keg 5 ft from my sink to kegerator using a dolly then it is 8 cases of water through the store in my car and up the stairs. As far as co2 goes, I have thought my supplier is shorting me. My gauge always shows yellow, never green. My supplier says I cant go by the gauge as it is a liquid and I have to go by weight. I have not weighed my tank. Should I next time?

It's an old thread I know, but I just wanted to point out for future readers that people make mineral water in kegs as well. Add brewing salts to match the profile of the water you like, add water, carbonate.