sous vide sterilization .... killing two birds with one stone

[Owly055]

I almost never get infections in my brews........... But my most recent secondary from my continuous fermenter picked up a very light case of lacto somewhere. It actually made for an excellent beer, as the slight sour worked very well with the dry hops.... Mosaic and Nugget. I go from my continuous brew fermenter.........which is NOT infected, to secondary, in two gallon increments, using ordinary glass 2 gallon ice tea dispensers. These have no fermentation lock, and the brew is fermented out enough that there is little or no CO2 given off in secondary. I dry hop the secondary. My continuous fermenter uses Sigmunds Voss Kveik, and is a Fast Ferment conical. The yeast cake is collected in the ball, and the ball loosened before adding wort, which is added boiling hot, right out of the boil kettle....... 1/3 new wort, to 2/3 wort in the fermenter. Temps rise to about 130, and slowly fall back into the 80's at which time I pitch the yeast from the ball. This temp spike, I believe creates the sterile environment that allows me to continuous ferment.

Casting about for a way to definitely kill the lacto in my secondary fermenter, it dawned on me that I had the perfect tool....... my Annova Sous Vide. I simply filled it with water, and dropped in the Annova set at 200F for a couple of hours. I then poured it into my mash tun and topped it to my mash water level, and set the Annova for my strike temp, and left it all afternoon. When I got home, the water was ready to dough in, and the secondary fermenter was ready to receive a new batch........... all nice and sterile.

All I can say is "why didn't I think of this before???" I use two or three of these glass jars for fermenters....... what better way to sterilize them?


H.W.

 

[jtratcliff]

not sterile... sanitized

Do you even need 2 hours at 200F? Isn't a few minutes at 165F enough for pasteurization?
Is 165F enough to kill lacto? I don't know! Kill it with FIRE!

Seems like should work, though... :beard:

BTW, I enjoy the updates on your solera-like adventures

 

[Owly055]

not sterile... sanitized

Do you even need 2 hours at 200F? Isn't a few minutes at 165F enough for pasteurization?
Is 165F enough to kill lacto? I don't know! Kill it with FIRE!

Seems like should work, though... :beard:

BTW, I enjoy the updates on your solera-like adventures

A mistake.............. the extended period at 200F resulted in gasket shrinkage, which I did not detect until filling from my continuous fermenter, when It began leaking on the floor. the result was that I had to rapidly don a rubber glove and dunk my hand in starsan so I could tighten the spigot ............ ;-( Time will tell if I introduced undesirables in the process...........but the silver lining is that I learned something.... as always.

H.W.

 

[jtratcliff]

Owly-armp-funk saison... has a nice ring to it

 

[anthropod]

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/stor...FDB8E827F8D8CB.f02t02?v=1&t=j627sme7&27992def

I think you are on to something with your sous vide sanitization I have been contemplating it for months honestly. I have a better bottle that scares me to use. It's very clean looking, and I have taken good care of it, but I have had 2 infections in it. Better bottles are rated at 140F.

http://www.better-bottle.com/technical.html

So..if I could find a way to keep my better bottle in 140F for 30 min.

 

[Owly055]

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/stor...FDB8E827F8D8CB.f02t02?v=1&t=j627sme7&27992def

I think you are on to something with your sous vide sanitization I have been contemplating it for months honestly. I have a better bottle that scares me to use. It's very clean looking, and I have taken good care of it, but I have had 2 infections in it. Better bottles are rated at 140F.

http://www.better-bottle.com/technical.html

So..if I could find a way to keep my better bottle in 140F for 30 min.

I don't know what the opening size is on a Better Bottle, but the classy Chef Steps brand Sous Vide is a bit under 1 7/8" diameter..... probably too large to fit into the neck. I've used my Annova 3 times for this now, the first time too long and too hot, I damaged the spigot and had to replace it.
The principle that makes sous vide safe is the fact that lower temps for longer periods of time, are just as effective if not more so, at killing microbes, as brief exposure to high temps. 140F for an extended period.... say an hour, is probably enough for killing lacto and aceto, the two microbes we need to worry about most. Hot starsan is probably even better. One approach might be to use a chugger and a two hole stopper with as deep drop tube to circulate from a second pot with a sous vide to maintain temp.
Heat is most effective, as it penetrates into cracks and crevices...........

H.W.

 

[anthropod]

Trying to sanitize a Better Bottle PET carboy using sous vide equipment.

Goal: To see if sanitizing a pet bottle using sous vide equipment could be a feasible solution when dealing with "suspect" bottles that may harbor bacteria via resistant biofilms.

Equipment:

Anova One "First Generation" Precision Sous Vide Immersion Circulator (1.0 kW Heater)

Winware Stainless Steel 40 Quart Stock Pot http://a.co/j6TDWx6

Item to sanitize:

Better Bottle 6 Gallon PET Carboy

Room Temperature: 75 Degrees Fahrenheit or 23.9 Degrees Celcius

Procedure:
Filled Better Bottle with hot water from the tap. (About 120 Degrees Fahrenheit or 48.9 Degrees Celcius). Filled stock put to within 2.24 Inches or 5.69 Centimeters. Set sous vide immersion circulator to
140 Degrees Fahrenheit or 60 Degrees Celcius. Measure temperature of the water inside carboy every 5-10 min.

Observations & Thoughts:
It took approximately 30 min until the immersion circulator registered 140 degrees Fahrenheit or 60 Degrees Celcius. At that time the water near the top of the carboy registered 126 Degrees Fahrenheit or 52.2 Degrees Celcius. After approximately 60 Minutes the water inside the top of the carboy measured at 132F or 55.6C.

After approximately 90 minutes, the temperature at the top of the carboy measured at 133.2F or 56.2C. Not optimistic that it would hit 140F or 60 C, I started an unofficial countdown after measuring that temperature and decided that 30 min would be a good start.

@132.8F or 56C one study showed that those temps could kill almost all of the bugs that can cause an infection except for Lactobacillus lindneri. The study suggests that 140F or 60C is needed. Setting the immersion circulator to 140F or 60C did not get the top portion of the carboy to the desired temp. If I had a larger container, I feel it should be possible if the 1.0kW heater could handle it.

I do not know what bug caused my infection. After following my usual sanitation protocol of starsan, I am going to fill this carboy with a low hop wheat beer. I feel this will be a real test.

 

[Owly055]

Great experiment!!!

H.W.

Trying to sanitize a Better Bottle PET carboy using sous vide equipment.

Goal: To see if sanitizing a pet bottle using sous vide equipment could be a feasible solution when dealing with "suspect" bottles that may harbor bacteria via resistant biofilms.

Equipment:

Anova One "First Generation" Precision Sous Vide Immersion Circulator (1.0 kW Heater)

Winware Stainless Steel 40 Quart Stock Pot http://a.co/j6TDWx6

Item to sanitize:

Better Bottle 6 Gallon PET Carboy

Room Temperature: 75 Degrees Fahrenheit or 23.9 Degrees Celcius

Procedure:
Filled Better Bottle with hot water from the tap. (About 120 Degrees Fahrenheit or 48.9 Degrees Celcius). Filled stock put to within 2.24 Inches or 5.69 Centimeters. Set sous vide immersion circulator to
140 Degrees Fahrenheit or 60 Degrees Celcius. Measure temperature of the water inside carboy every 5-10 min.

Observations & Thoughts:
It took approximately 30 min until the immersion circulator registered 140 degrees Fahrenheit or 60 Degrees Celcius. At that time the water near the top of the carboy registered 126 Degrees Fahrenheit or 52.2 Degrees Celcius. After approximately 60 Minutes the water inside the top of the carboy measured at 132F or 55.6C.

After approximately 90 minutes, the temperature at the top of the carboy measured at 133.2F or 56.2C. Not optimistic that it would hit 140F or 60 C, I started an unofficial countdown after measuring that temperature and decided that 30 min would be a good start.

@132.8F or 56C one study showed that those temps could kill almost all of the bugs that can cause an infection except for Lactobacillus lindneri. The study suggests that 140F or 60C is needed. Setting the immersion circulator to 140F or 60C did not get the top portion of the carboy to the desired temp. If I had a larger container, I feel it should be possible if the 1.0kW heater could handle it.

I do not know what bug caused my infection. After following my usual sanitation protocol of starsan, I am going to fill this carboy with a low hop wheat beer. I feel this will be a real test.

 

[anthropod]

OK...so first... I think I chose a bad yeast to try this out with. Ha! I used Safale WB-06 I think it's infection free, but there is a slight tart element to the beer. (Tasted at 68 Degrees Flat) I'll taste it again when it's cold and carbonated. But I am optimistic. Just wish It had no tartness so I would feel like it was a total success. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=149355