Toasted Malt - any diastic power?

[ColoradoXJ13]

Hey all, I made 10 gallons of ESB the weekend before last and realized that I left out the 4# of toasted malt the recipe called for (I have made this beer before, just had an off-day and forgot it). In any case, the beer has fermented out but is lacking some malty character. I toasted the 4# of 2-row tonight at 350*F for 15 minutes (man the house smells good). I was thinking about crushing the grain, and either steeping in a gallon of H20 at 170*F for a while, then boiling and adding to the carboys, or mashing at 150*F for an hour and then boiling and adding to carboy.

Is the mash a waste of my time if there is no diastic power in the toasted malt?

Any suggestions?

 

[EvilTOJ]

No, toasting it will destroy the diastatic power, so you may as well steep it for awhile.

 

[ColoradoXJ13]

Are there any convertable sugars in toasted malt then? i.e. should I mash it with a pound or two of 6-row, or it is completely inconvertable like crystal malts?

 

[Revvy]

Wow you're the second person this week that forgot some grain, and wanted to know about adding it after the fact...I hope it's not contagious

If you decide to do it, please report back...

 

[Dude]

No, toasting it will destroy the diastatic power, so you may as well steep it for awhile.

I don't agree.

For example, Munich malt is kilned, and still has about 70% diastatic power.

IMHO, depending on how much toasting is done to the malt, it WILL retain some diastatic power.

 

[TheCrane]

I recently posted a similar question and was reminded by a fellow member of the section in Mosher's book that deals with this topic. According to Randy, the malt must be completely dehydrated at a lower temp ~ 112 F, then kilned at temperatures not to exceed 230 F, if enzymatic power is to be maintained. Any higher, and they will be denatured.

 

[Kaiser]

IAccording to Randy, the malt must be completely dehydrated at a lower temp ~ 112 F, then kilned at temperatures not to exceed 230 F, if enzymatic power is to be maintained. Any higher, and they will be denatured.

Which is given when you toast malt since you toast it dry.

I'm with Dude that there is still enzymatic power in toasted malt, but depending on the time and temp of the toasting there might be more or less. Just to be safe there is nothing wrong in adding about 20-50% pilsner/2-row malt to a toasted malt mash.

Steeping won't work.

Depending on how much already like the FG of the ESB you may want to mash at 160 F (to get less fermentable wort) or 155 F (to get more fermentable wort) for about 45 - 60 min or until converted. Then boil at least for 15 min and add to the fermenters. This should get the fermentation going again. Since the wort is not hopped expect a drop in bitterness.
Kai

 

[TheCrane]

Which is given when you toast malt since you toast it dry.

I'm with Dude that there is still enzymatic power in toasted malt, but depending on the time and temp of the toasting there might be more or less. Just to be safe there is nothing wrong in adding about 20-50% pilsner/2-row malt to a toasted malt mash.

Steeping won't work.

Depending on how much already like the FG of the ESB you may want to mash at 160 F (to get less fermentable wort) or 155 F (to get more fermentable wort) for about 45 - 60 min or until converted. Then boil at least for 15 min and add to the fermenters. This should get the fermentation going again. Since the wort is not hopped expect a drop in bitterness.
Kai

Not necessarily. The distinctive flavors created during toasting are products of Maillard Reactions and referred to as melanoidins. The end proportions of such products are influenced by temp, time, pH, and WATER. Pre-soaking malt before toasting is standard practice for achieving certain flavors.

 

[FlyGuy]

When speaking of toasting a malt at high temps like this, products that come to my mind are things like Victory or Biscuit malts. But these malts have little to no diastatic power, because the enzymes are denatured at these high toasting temperatures.

I think this is different from high-kilned malts like Munich or Vienna which are kilned at lower temperatures than toasting (not much more than 100 C).

I am guessing that toasting malt in the oven at 350 F (177 C) is going to remove pretty much all the diastatic power from the grains, so it is going to have to be mashed with other malts with some enzymes.

 

[ColoradoXJ13]

I'll just add in a couple #'s of 2-row (or 6-row is the new LHBS opens soon) and mash at a normal temp. It was a 1.050OG and is at 1.014 after 1.5 weeks in primary. I was on the low end of OG but am near the FG, so I'd like to keep this relatively fermentable. I'm sure it will be beer when I finish...

 

[TheCrane]

Make sure you check for complete conversion (Iodine test). Adding unconverted starches will cause clouding that won't quit. Low enzyme concentrations may make for a longer mash. Keeping it thick might help.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[ColoradoXJ13]

Make sure you check for complete conversion (Iodine test). Adding unconverted starches will cause clouding that won't quit. Low enzyme concentrations may make for a longer mash. Keeping it thick might help.

Let us know how it goes.

was gonna do it pretty thick so I don't have to add too much volume, maybe 0.8-1qt/#, let it go for a couple hours, I think 6# should be enough to work in my mash tun and not have to deal with stovetop mashing and grain bags.