Zwickel Clone Help

[JLump]

So probably my all time favorite lager is Urban Chestnut's Zwickel. What sets it apart for me at least is how bready/biscuity it is.

I what to try and clone it for my next beer and this is what I have so far:

ABV: 5.2%
IBU: 20
OG: 1.048
Hops: Hallertau Perle, Hallertau Mittelfrueh
-(75% for bittering, 25% for aroma)
Malt: pilsner(I'm thinking Bohemian Pilsner from Weyermann) , caramel, (and probably a couple onces of melonoiden because I'm not going to do a decoction)

All this information was taken from Urban Chestnut's website. Also, I am thinking Wyeast 2206, Bohemian lager strain.

So I really want to nail that bready/biscuity flavor. I was wondering if it might be a good idea to add some biscuit malt. Also, I've never seen caramel used in lagers of I am sort of confused about that.

 

[friarsmith]

WY2206 would be fine. This site below recommends S-23 (supposedly directly from the brewers at UC). S-23, in my experience is every so slightly tart/fruity if your ferm temp creeps over 50 early-on.

Weyermanns Floor Malted Bo-Pils malt is great choice. You mentioned not decocting, but you'll get a nice bready/nougat flavor even with a quick single decoction with the Bo Pils.

Biscuit, Victory, and Special Roast all give some bready flavors, so check them out.

Do you start with R-O water and build from there? If so, make sure Calcium is 50-60ppm and the sulphates are low for this beer. That'll help coax out subtle breadyness from the pils malt.

http://www.stlbrews.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4300

 

[JLump]

Thanks for the reply. I've got 75ppm Sulfite and 20ppm Calcium coming out of my tap. I've got Calcium Chloride to up the Calcium but do you think it would be necessary to dilute to decrease my sulfites?

I was going to use melonoiden but maybe this would be a good opportunity to try my hand at decoction.

 

[friarsmith]

I'm not a fan of melanoidin. Can be cloying even in small amounts. My $0.02.

Might be a good idea to dilute a bit to get the sulfite down to 50ppm or so. A half teaspoon of lactic acid in both the mash and sparge water is probably a good idea as well since you're dealing w/ pils malt.

Keep the decoction simple and it's no sweat. For a zwickel where some haze is desired, you can skip the often used protein rest in the 120's, IMO.

I'm assuming you're doing a 5-6 gallon batch for the quantities stated below. Mash-in around the 149-154 range and hold for 30 minutes. Then, using a strainer, put about a gallon of the mash grain in a kettle along with 2 quarts or so of wort from the mash (just dip from the top w/ a pitcher or drain through false bottom). Raise the decoction to 168* for a 10 minute mash-out, then ramp and boil for 15-20 mins.

Adding the decoction back to the main mash should get you close to mash-out temps, but if not, don't sweat it too much. If you heat some sparge water during the first 30 minute rest, you could use a gallon or so of that to help hit mash-out temp later.

 

[JLump]

Thanks for the help. I'm definitely going to try this.