Single Infusion Mash Temperature by Style of Beer

[Bottoms_Up]

I realize that there are many factors that can determine the mash temperature used for single infusion, but is there such as thing as a chart or table that provides the general infusion mash temperature by style of beer? I'm particularly interested in the lagers (Bavarian, Bohemian, American, Helles, Oktoberfest, etc.).

 

[dmtaylor]

I mash 90-95% of my beers at 150 F for 45 minutes. In my experience this method works really well for most styles. I haven't seen a style-specific chart but I'm sure it's out there someplace. Not sure I'd use it if it existed. There are simply too many variables, including mash time, yeast strain, extent of crush, etc., so one size does not necessarily fit all. Except for the 150 F thing. The time may vary, but the temp of 150 F is a good one for most styles I think.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

I mash 90-95% of my beers at 150 F for 45 minutes. In my experience this method works really well for most styles. I haven't seen a style-specific chart but I'm sure it's out there someplace. Not sure I'd use it if it existed. There are simply too many variables, including mash time, yeast strain, extent of crush, etc., so one size does not necessarily fit all. Except for the 150 F thing. The time may vary, but the temp of 150 F is a good one for most styles I think.

There are indeed many variables, although the yeast usually matches the style, but even a general chart should help as a guideline from which to make subsequent variations based on experience. I have not been able to find such a style-specific table although I thought for sure there would be one. I agree that 150 would seem to work effectively for most lagers.

 

[Redpappy]

I realize that there are many factors that can determine the mash temperature used for single infusion, but is there such as thing as a chart or table that provides the general infusion mash temperature by style of beer? I'm particularly interested in the lagers (Bavarian, Bohemian, American, Helles, Oktoberfest, etc.).

Such a good question. I am still trying to figure out the difference I. Temps for mash. ( have only done 2 BIAB batches). Hopefully more will time in and give their on-site on this.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

Such a good question. I am still trying to figure out the difference I. Temps for mash. ( have only done 2 BIAB batches). Hopefully more will time in and give their on-site on this.

A related question, for which I have also never seen an answer to, is:

how can you convert a particular step-infusion mash into the equivalent temperature infusion mash?

For example, the following is a typical 2-step mash infusion requirement for a continental pilsner:

30 minute Protein rest at 131 F
90 minute starch conversion rest at 150 F
(except for Bohemian pilsners which use 153-154 F)

So if you had highly converted grains and decided to just follow the recipe but use a single infusion mash, what temperature would you use? Is it the same as whatever they used for the starch conversion rest, or does the other rest affect the body, sweetness, fermentability, etc. over and above the starch conversion test, requiring a different infusion mash temperature? What about a 3-step infusion mash?

 

[dmtaylor]

A related question, for which I have also never seen an answer to, is:

how can you convert a particular step-infusion mash into the equivalent temperature infusion mash?

For example, the following is a typical 2-step mash infusion requirement for a continental pilsner:

30 minute Protein rest at 131 F
90 minute starch conversion rest at 150 F
(except for Bohemian pilsners which use 153-154 F)

So if you had highly converted grains and decided to just follow the recipe but use a single infusion mash, what temperature would you use? Is it the same as whatever they used for the starch conversion rest, or does the other rest affect the body, sweetness, fermentability, etc. over and above the starch conversion test, requiring a different infusion mash temperature? What about a 3-step infusion mash?

In my opinion, the total mash time is the most critical number, and the mash temperature should just be set to 150 F in most cases. So for your example above, I would mash at 150 F for 30+90=120 minutes (whoa! that's a long mash!) to achieve approximately the same end result.

Personally I think any mash with a total time of >90 minutes is a waste of time, unless done out of convenience like overnight mashing starting at bed time and running off in the morning or something like that. But who's to say for sure.

 

[stickyfinger]

I don't really think mash temp has much impact on anything but the alcohol level of the beer. Much more important to me are the carbonation level, presence of unfermented simple sugars, and level of gypsum.

 

[Redpappy]

I don't really think mash temp has much impact on anything but the alcohol level of the beer. Much more important to me are the carbonation level, presence of unfermented simple sugars, and level of gypsum.

What temp do you mash at then?

 

[waldoar15]

I brew mostly Lagers and mash at 150-152 on almost all of them. YMMV.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

In my opinion, the total mash time is the most critical number, and the mash temperature should just be set to 150 F in most cases. So for your example above, I would mash at 150 F for 30+90=120 minutes (whoa! that's a long mash!) to achieve approximately the same end result.

Personally I think any mash with a total time of >90 minutes is a waste of time, unless done out of convenience like overnight mashing starting at bed time and running off in the morning or something like that. But who's to say for sure.

I think 90 minutes is more than enough to get full conversion. 120 minutes seems excessive. Most lagers are meant to be quite dry, so anything from about 147-150 should achieve that. However, some of the North American pilsners/lagers seem to be slightly sweeter, so I assume they must use a slightly higher mash temperature, perhaps 151-152.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

I don't really think mash temp has much impact on anything but the alcohol level of the beer. Much more important to me are the carbonation level, presence of unfermented simple sugars, and level of gypsum.

Not according to the experts. Mashing at a higher temperature (e.g. 154-157) leaves a fuller body and more residual sweetness than mashing at a lower temperature (e.g. 147-150).

 

[stickyfinger]

What temp do you mash at then?

I've been doing a single infusion at 165F for several beers now. I've gone as high as 167F. When I do a club brew with friends, I often stick to a more by the book number of 155F. I'm trying to reduce the alcohol level of all of my beers though. Some people seem to want to increase the alcohol level, just a difference in desired end result.

 

[stickyfinger]

Not according to the experts. Mashing at a higher temperature (e.g. 154-157) leaves a fuller body and more residual sweetness than mashing at a lower temperature (e.g. 147-150).

Yeah, I know the theory. And, I admit that I haven't taken the time to do an exact side by side brew of a high vs a low mash temp beer, all else being equal. I just don't get a perception of more fullness, body or sweetness in my high mash temp beers according to my memory of them as done at a lower mash temp.

Anyone up for a little experimentation should give it a try and see if you really think it tastes fuller with the same OG and higher mash temp.

I should also say that I always do a mashout at 170F for 10 minutes, so I make sure to lock in the profile.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

Yeah, I know the theory. And, I admit that I haven't taken the time to do an exact side by side brew of a high vs a low mash temp beer, all else being equal. I just don't get a perception of more fullness, body or sweetness in my high mash temp beers according to my memory of them as done at a lower mash temp.

Anyone up for a little experimentation should give it a try and see if you really think it tastes fuller with the same OG and higher mash temp.

I should also say that I always do a mashout at 170F for 10 minutes, so I make sure to lock in the profile.

I did increase the mash temperature of one of my lagers, and it ended up being WAY too sweet. The recipe was basically the same, although this doesn't really qualify for a true side-by-side comparison. How much does the 165 F mash reduce the alcohol by? I've been trying to think of ways of making a low alcohol beer with the same general level of taste. Session beers usually taste too watered down unless you add a lot of hops and adjuncts to it. I like the malt flavor, but not particularly the over-hopped flavors.

 

[dmtaylor]

Yeah, I know the theory. And, I admit that I haven't taken the time to do an exact side by side brew of a high vs a low mash temp beer, all else being equal. I just don't get a perception of more fullness, body or sweetness in my high mash temp beers according to my memory of them as done at a lower mash temp.

Anyone up for a little experimentation should give it a try and see if you really think it tastes fuller with the same OG and higher mash temp.

I know @Denny Conn ("expert"?!) has said the same thing while in the pursuit of his ideal "American Mild". He's mashed several of his "milds" in the 160s and found that he just wasn't getting the body and mouthfeel that he desired, and continues his quest on how to achieve something he loves (the last I heard anyway, which was like a year ago). Maybe he'll chime in?

 

[stickyfinger]

I know @Denny Conn ("expert"?!) has said the same thing while in the pursuit of his ideal "American Mild". He's mashed several of his "milds" in the 160s and found that he just wasn't getting the body and mouthfeel that he desired, and continues his quest on how to achieve something he loves (the last I heard anyway, which was like a year ago). Maybe he'll chime in?

Welll, that's cool to hear. Definitely jibes with my experience. I've found to increase fullness it is much more effective to do the following (a bit of a repeat sorry)

-decrease carbonation
-increase OG
-reduce sulfate
-add lactose
-use a less attenuative yeast
-add simple sugars to the keg when carbonating to increase sweetness slightly
-decrease bitterness (might make it seem a little more full if it is less bitter though dryness is way more important imho)
-try to get more hop character from the whirlpool as opposed to the dry hop - at least with some varieties of hops (which seem to make a beer seem much drier than other varieties)
-i swear leaving some yeast in suspension can make a beer seem thicker and fuller (especially in IPAs I've done but also in Pils/kellerbier and belgians - just an untested claim on my part again and could be hogwash.)

I haven't really found any malts to increase body much either in my experience. randy mosher recommended a 50% flaked wheat base for a hazy IPA in a podcast i just listened to a few weeks ago from beersmith. that might increase body some. i do like the body on my wit biers with a similar base, but i haven't done a side by side to see if the flaked wheat is really contributing to body. i didn't find my 20% rolled oats NEIPAs to have any more body than just using straight 2-row.

I've done a few side by sides with triangle tests, one being gelatin-fined IPA vs no fining. No one could tell the difference consistently. Another one was 1272 vs 1318 in an NEIPA. No one could tell the difference consistently on that either. They were each only one test of that variable though. I think there are a lot of things that are in textbooks that just don't seem to be that important or just don't translate to homebrew for whatever reason, and I also think our minds have an incredible tendency toward bias.

 

[stickyfinger]

Sorry, forgot to say one last thing. I've found that if I want to make a richer example of a style, I'll often take a recipe and increase the OG by maybe 10 points and then mash at 165F vs the usual low 150sF. The ABV will come out pretty similar to the other recipe, but the higher OG will result in a thicker, fuller flavor in the beer, imo. So, I might do a Pils at 1.060 and 165F instead of 1.048 and 150F. The ABV should be in the same ballpark for both - I don't have actual numbers in front of me right now (assuming you do a mashout step.)

 

[Bottoms_Up]

Sorry, forgot to say one last thing. I've found that if I want to make a richer example of a style, I'll often take a recipe and increase the OG by maybe 10 points and then mash at 165F vs the usual low 150sF. The ABV will come out pretty similar to the other recipe, but the higher OG will result in a thicker, fuller flavor in the beer, imo. So, I might do a Pils at 1.060 and 165F instead of 1.048 and 150F. The ABV should be in the same ballpark for both - I don't have actual numbers in front of me right now (assuming you do a mashout step.)

It would make an interesting experiment. I assume you might have to increase the hops as well. I'm pretty sure that the sweetness perception will increase.

 

[dmtaylor]

I haven't really found any malts to increase body much either in my experience. randy mosher recommended a 50% flaked wheat base for a hazy IPA in a podcast i just listened to a few weeks ago from beersmith. that might increase body some. i do like the body on my wit biers with a similar base, but i haven't done a side by side to see if the flaked wheat is really contributing to body. i didn't find my 20% rolled oats NEIPAs to have any more body than just using straight 2-row.

Rye malt will definitely increase body and head retention in my experience, but only if used in large amounts of at least 25-30% (I use up to 40-45% in some beers). Oats should theoretically do the same thing but in my experience don't work as well as rye. Wheat I don't think does anything for body IMO. Try rye, you might like it, and the flavor is NOT "spicy" by the way, not at all. It's somewhat earthy and bready, but NOT "spicy" in my experience. And I've used it a lot. Others might beg to differ, but I wonder if they've ever used 40%.

 

[dmtaylor]

Sorry, forgot to say one last thing. I've found that if I want to make a richer example of a style, I'll often take a recipe and increase the OG by maybe 10 points and then mash at 165F vs the usual low 150sF. The ABV will come out pretty similar to the other recipe, but the higher OG will result in a thicker, fuller flavor in the beer, imo. So, I might do a Pils at 1.060 and 165F instead of 1.048 and 150F. The ABV should be in the same ballpark for both - I don't have actual numbers in front of me right now (assuming you do a mashout step.)

That's a great use of tools in the toolbox.

Cheers.

 

[Denny]

I know @Denny Conn ("expert"?!) has said the same thing while in the pursuit of his ideal "American Mild". He's mashed several of his "milds" in the 160s and found that he just wasn't getting the body and mouthfeel that he desired, and continues his quest on how to achieve something he loves (the last I heard anyway, which was like a year ago). Maybe he'll chime in?

Yeah, I mashed the same grist at 153 and 168 with identical results. That was with Rahr and GWmalt. I think to some extent the results will depend on the particular malt you use, but in general there's so much diastatic power these days that it makes a lot less difference than it used to.

 

[Denny]

Rye malt will definitely increase body and head retention in my experience, but only if used in large amounts of at least 25-30% (I use up to 40-45% in some beers). Oats should theoretically do the same thing but in my experience don't work as well as rye. Wheat I don't think does anything for body IMO. Try rye, you might like it, and the flavor is NOT "spicy" by the way, not at all. It's somewhat earthy and bready, but NOT "spicy" in my experience. And I've used it a lot. Others might beg to differ, but I wonder if they've ever used 40%.

Then you've been using the wrong rye malt. Mecca Grade Rimrock rye, for instance, is noticeably spicy.

Malted oats are another way to increase body. Also WY1450.

 

[dmtaylor]

Denny, thanks for the responses!

Mecca Grade Rimrock rye, for instance, is noticeably spicy.

Never heard of it.

 

[stickyfinger]

Then you've been using the wrong rye malt. Mecca Grade Rimrock rye, for instance, is noticeably spicy.

Malted oats are another way to increase body. Also WY1450.

why does 1450 give good body, glycerol? unknown? i did a split batch with 1318 and 1450 and the 1450 had way more body.

 

[Denny]

why does 1450 give good body, glycerol? unknown? i did a split batch with 1318 and 1450 and the 1450 had way more body.

Don't know. But ever since I first used it I found it gave beer a smooth, silky mouthfeel, even when well attenuated.

 

[Denny]

Denny, thanks for the responses!



Never heard of it.

Which is why you may need to temper your statements about rye not being spicy until you've tried all the rye malts put there! Maybe say you haven't been able to detect spiciness in the ones you've tried. Which may be the malt, or may be your perception.