When to go from Primary to Secondary (If at all)

The answer is in the FAQ sticky
This is just a quick overview.

For most brews a secondary is not obligitory

The fermenting should take place in the fermenter (Primary).
After the fermentation is finished then it can be transferred to a conditioning/clearing vessel (Secondary). Secondary fermentation vessels are sometimes used when adding fruit after the primary fermentation.

When should this happen?
Fermentation can take any where from 12 hours to 3 months (and more) most "normal" brews would be done in 3 to 10 days. The hydrometer will tell you.
If you want to guess then there are other methods. The one that can not be relied on is the bubbles stop.

Experienced brewers decide themselves when to move and what to do. Every beer is different.
If you are not sure and want an easy rule of thumb for a normal beer then a lot of brewers are happy to stick follow the 1-2-3 rule. 1 week to ferment - 2 weeks clearing/conditioning - 3 weeks to bottle condition.
Other brewers are just happy to leave it in primary for and extended time until it is ready to keg or bottle.

Sometimes the "Secondary" vessel is called a bright or clearing tank

Hope that helps.

In general, which types of beer require secondaries? Is a secondary optional on all beers, or are there some types which NEED a secondary (for clarity or otherwise)?

Some very experienced brewers have given up on secondaries.
It is optional.

I would suggest using them until you have the experience to judge for yourself.
I think wheat beers are about the only beers that don't benefit from moving to a conditioning vessel.

Some people have smaller conditioning vessels so go to use them so they can clear their fermenter for the next batch.

orfy said:

Fermentation can take any where from 12 hours to 3 months (and more) most "normal" brews would be done in 3 to 10 days. The hydrometer will tell you.

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You mean that hydrometers across the pond can speak? Man you guys always get everything first!

I usually rack my beer when the bubbles have slow to a crawl, thus the majority of the yeast has dropped out of the beer. (about 7-10 days.) I use a ale pail so once the CO2 has slowed it needs a new home in carboy to prevent oxidation. I have always used a secondary for clarity except for a batch or two. It keeps the bottles cleaner.

I observe everyday, when I have 1 bubble to each 2 min, I take for the freezer (~3°C) for more 24 to 48 hs and step for the secondary for more 1 or 2 weeks. I believe to be important the secondary, because it seems that the flavor is better when the whole volume is in the maturation. Will it be that this (every volume) influence? Sometimes that I bottled direct I was under the impression of the flavor to be different.

I've seen alot of veteran brewers maention the 1-2-3 method or even 2-4weeks in a primary (no secondary) but I have one question.

Most recipe's Ive read (only about 5 or so) indicate 2weeks or less for fermentation.

Now I know that patience is a virtue as far as fermentation goes and it seems the longer the better but then why would so many recipes indicate less? Is there a chance for off flavors due to sitting on dead yeast and or trub for too long?

In reality most beers will be fully fermented within a week. Sometimes this can happen as quickly as 48 hours if the yeast is aggressive. The extra time spent in the primary or secondary is for conditioning and clearing of the beer. A lot of yeast will remain submerged in the beer for some time after fermentation has slowed. It's better to allow time for this yeast to flocculate and settle at the bottom before bottling/kegging (hence, clearer beer).

There is no "concrete way" to time this. It depends on the initial gravity of your brew, the strain of yeast you're using, the conditions under which fermentation happens (temp, etc.).

Many people follow the 1-2-3 method (including me sometimes) and it works well. Just use your hydrometer and your own gut feeling to know when things are ready. You'll get the hang of it quicker than you might think.

Longer times are for fermentation and clearing. Most recipes are just talking about fermentation.

Autolysis is very rare. I've left batches on the trub for months without a problem.

Fermentation is usually complete in less then a week - assuming a "normal" gravity beer, pitched with enough healthy yeast, aerated, good fermentation etc. Lagers may take a little longer.

Assuming healthy yeast there is little danger of yeast death and autolysis for a month or more. You are more in danger of drinking "green" (inadequately conditioned) beer if you only ferment/condition for 2 weeks before bottling.

Conditioning the beer (also referred to as secondary fermentation) takes longer. You can do this in a secondary or leave it on the yeast cake (and there are good arguments to do so). You could also bottle in 2 weeks, but you might need to leave it in the bottles longer for conditioning to finish so you are not really saving time.

The 1-2-3 method is simple to remember, works fine for most beers. Personally I have gone to fermenting and conditioning in the same fermentor, then bottle. I brew mostly lower gravity bitters, ales, porters etc so I leave them in the primary 3-5weeks before bottling and then at least 2-3 weeks in the bottle before drinking. Bigger beers I ferment/condition in a primary for a month then condition further for 2-3 months in a secondary.

Some beer styles would be fine with a shorter fermentation/conditioning time and are meant to be drunk "young" - eg hefeweizens.

GT

I have left a brew in the primary far longer then that without any ill effects. Not that I would do it on purpose, if I had known my schedule was going to get so crazy I definitely would have transfered to a secondary but I just never had the time to sanitize and get everything ready to accomplish the task.

Is it true that plastic bottles are permeable at a molecular level? Cause I want to use a Better Bottle for about a two week secondary for Ale - nothing long-term like a strong ale or mead, just a simple Ale.

I bought this better bottle as a primary so that I could use the spigot at the bottom for ease in racking to secondary.

I also have a 6.5 gallon glass carboy that I could put a 5 gallon batch of brew into secondary in, but there will be a lot of headspace - if I purge out the O2 with a trickle of CO2 from a hand-held charger would it be OK to use for the 5 gallon secondary since it's only gonna sit there?

Better bottles work perfectly fine for secondaries.

Do I still need to do a secondary?

I never do secondaries anymore there is no need too and why risk it.

So i have a question for those that dont do a secondary or leave their primary to ferment for longer periods of time. Do you use a blowoff system at least during the time when the fermentation begins? I used a blowoff system on my first batch and it seemd to help keep the fermenter looking cleaner when i went to transfer it to the secondary. Do you ever find that the sticky crap that lines the fermenter causes off flavors if it sits next to your beer for an extended period of time? Do you think there is any concern with not using blowoff systems and just using airlocks? I havent had good flavor with any of my batches sinice the first batch that had the blowoff system. Although that batch was brewed during a much more reasonable temperature. I am really trying to figure out what i am doing wrong on my more recent brews.

Well, I occasionally use a blow off tube in the beginning if it's needed. After the intense fermentation period is over, I pull it and put on an airlock.

When you transfer, leave all the crud on the sides of the fermenter, whether you're using a bucket or a carboy. That krausen ring is full of awful bitter tasting stuff.

Off flavors do tend to come from high fermentation temperatures- so if that's a possibility, I'd look there first.

You can always start another thread asking about the bad taste- and we can try to help!

My hydrometer is at 1.020 and I think the kit said final should be 1.010-1.005 should I move to secondary?

chione said:

My hydrometer is at 1.020 and I think the kit said final should be 1.010-1.005 should I move to secondary?

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I am by no means an expert but I've had some beers that would not get down to their suggested final gravities. What kind of water you use, if you altered the recipe at all, and how the brewing goes can change the gravity of the batch.

I'd say if you've waited a reasonable amount of time (10 days or more) and you're not seeing many bubbles in the air lock (one a minute or more infrequently) then you may as well transfer.

explosivebeer said:

I'd say if you've waited a reasonable amount of time (10 days or more) and you're not seeing many bubbles in the air lock (one a minute or more infrequently) then you may as well transfer.

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Lack of bubbles is only one indicator. You are totaly guessing if you use this method.

Bah Humbug said:

Lack of bubbles is only one indicator. You are totaly guessing if you use this method.

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Yeah like I said, I am definitely not an expert! It's just a rule of thumb that someone told me.

Bah Humbug what else should you look for if the bubbles have stopped and the gravity isn't down to where it should be? Should you pitch more yeast or aerate the batch to reactivate the yeast that's in there? At what point do you just move forward?

Thanks for the info.

I've been waiting for the krausen to completley dissipate before racking to the secondary. What do people think of that?

bobwantbeer said:

I've been waiting for the krausen to completely dissipate before racking to the secondary. What do people think of that?

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Sometimes the krausen forms a "crust" that will not totally dissipate, so that is not a full proof indication either. I wait for the bubbles to drop off and watch the krausen levels, but usually I wait 7-10 days and take a hydro reading. My question was semi-answered here, what if the hydro reading is not at FG? In a perfect world, should all the fermentation be done in the primary? I have in the past moved to the secondary and then got another burst of activity for a day or so.

explosivebeer said:

Bah Humbug what else should you look for if the bubbles have stopped and the gravity isn't down to where it should be? Should you pitch more yeast or aerate the batch to reactivate the yeast that's in there? At what point do you just move forward?
Thanks for the info.

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Some times the brew is just not as fermentable as thought. Some of these kits have rubbish instructions and suggest it should reach 1005 or so.

generally a yeast will state it's attenuation rate for normal circumstances. usually around 75-80%
So if you have a 1040 beer. you'd look at around 1008 - 1010. If it's close and you have had normal fermenting temperature and it's had long enough then you shouldn't worry if it is 1010 - 1012.
It's as much art as science.
Sometimes racking to a secondary vessel for clearing/conditioning is enough to bump start the last bit of fermentation.
Sometimes fermentation is just very slow and may take 3 times longer than you'd expect.

I must admit that apart from reading, understanding, and absorbing other peoples experience then I have never had experience in this.
I have never had a stuck fermentation so have never had to restart one.

I have a Mad Elf clone that has been fermenting away for a week now in the primary. I am a point or two (i'm still dropping) from where I estimate my gravity to be before racking to the secondary. I am supposed to rack on top of cherries in the secondary, and I'd really like to get this started. Is there a problem with racking into a secondary too soon?

-J

not really. You are gong to build up alot of yeast again once you rack onto the fruit anyway as it is going to start fermentation really rolling again for a bit due to the sugars in the fruit. rack on my friend.

I agree. This is a fine time to rack - before the yeast slows down to much.


TL

as long as you're close to the FG its ok. it when you do it midway through primary that you can do a little bit of harm, in terms of possible off flavors from stressing the yeast by removing most of it.

my current situation is I have a beer that has been in primary for 11 days now. The krausen has been at the same level since day six or seven, it's spotty all along the top. You guys think I'd be ok to rack into the secondary?

In order to determine if fermentation is done you need to take hydrometer readings over two consecutive days. If it stays the same, then you are OK to rack to secondary.

Since you are adding fermentables and doing a secondary, it is a good idea to rack a bit early.

I just read thru this post and anyone without a hydromter MUST get one. Without one, you run the risk of bottle bombs. They f***ing EXPLODE. A guy posted pics of a gash he sustained on his palm from one, could have easily cut his wrist veins wide open. Since I saw those pics I absolutely always use one, even though I always did anyway.

I transferred my first brew to the secondary on Tuesday evening. Is there supposed to be anything going on? I have a few bubbles floating around on the top but other than that just looks like dark beer. Any ideas. This is a brewers best Amber Cerveza kit. The beer smelled and tasted normal on Tuesday. Thanks for all the help.

Everything is fine. The secondary is really more of a clearing tank, there shouldn't be anymore active fermentation going on.

It's ok, like cnbdz said it's mostly just a settling time. All the real active fermentation takes place in the primary. Now your in the hardest part of brewing, the waiting to drink it part. Sounds like it should be good, enjoy.

I've done several of the Brewer's Best kits, and I have LOVED most all of them. I, however, was underwhelmed with the Amber Cerveza kit. The European Bock was my favorite so far.

If you do another one, igmore their 168-170 for 20 mins with the steep bag, and use one of the more elaborate protein rest steeping methods.

protein rests are for mashing grains, not simply steeping them.

Has anyone out there brewed the same beer twice with the exact same ingredients and conditions with one staying in the primary for 3 weeks verus 1 week in the primary and two weeks in the secondary?? Just curious what differences in taste were noticed. To be fair both beers will also bottle condition for the same amount of time.

it would be an interesting experiment, but i don't think there would be much of a difference, other than possible clarity.