When to go from Primary to Secondary (If at all)

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TheDuke said:
Just wanted to say that this thread is great. I am only on my second batch, but am certainly interested in getting a glass carboy at some point. Once that happens, I'll probably try racking into a secondary for s&g's.

Thanks!
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Look at http://www.better-bottle.com/ as an alternative or even just get another bucket. Not saying you can't use glass but there are safer alternative out there now.
 
It was brought up in this post before, but it was not answered. I may also be doing a terrible job at searching so I thought I would ask again.

When you rack to secondary is there a certain temp that it should be kept at? Within reason of course. Thanks!
 
YooperBrew said:
You should keep it at fermenting temperatures.
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Thats kind of what I was thinking, but I just wanted to double check, and hear the answer form someone far more versed in the process. Thanks again!
 
I read through all the pages, and I've very confused now.

All my brew books say that using the secondary will:
1- Improve flavor
2- Improve clarity
3- Reduce grenades
4- Reduce yeast bite.
5- Reduce sediments in bottle

Taste seems to be the issue that is debated now. My books say something like during secondary, the yeast behave differently with the trub gone, and actively remove off flavors. So now I curious if that benefit was really just anecdotal, or actually proven emperically.

Related to that, could an alternate approach be INSTEAD of racking the wort, why not rack out the most of the trub using some sort of vaccume hose? then just continue fermenting in the primary?
 
FROM MY READING, DISCUSSIONS AND EXPERIENCE:

leaving the beer on the trub will derive flavour from the proteins and whatnot, plus allow more yeasties to do their job.

once you rack to secondary, you cut down on the yeasties (which in some cases if done to early, can result in a stuck fermentation, other times jump-starting the yeast to give it one last haul, depending on conditions and flocculation)

it will allow for a bit more clarity, but time in any container will do this.

leaving the beer on the trub is not the problem people used to think it was...there is much more proof now that you can get more flavour this way and many people skip the secondary.

as for yeast bite, i'd say that would mean more letting it settle in the bottles and pouring carefully. although you might have LESS in the bottles from using a secondary, time and proper racking technique is more important.

racking the trub out MIGHT work, but it seems it would be rather difficult. a lot of people using conical fermenters have this capability. they can dispense the trub from the bottom of the container, allowing for a "secondary fermentation" in the primary.

basically, yes...removing the beer from the trub and allowing the yeast to clean up could reduce "off-flavours." But it could also reduce some GOOD flavour ;)

:mug:
 
I'm a complete newbie. Got the kit, read the book and LHBS recipe instructions. Made my first beer. After 3 days, the heavy fermentation was slowing down. The recipe kit said to move it to the secondary after 2-3 days, so I did so. In the secondary, the fermentation took off again. The Amber kit said to bottle after 7-10 days.
I was going to bottle last night, because the fermentation lock was down to 1 buble every 60 seconds.

Thank goodness this thread!!! I'm going check my hydrometer reading tonight. I'll continue to monitor the reading every 5-7 days. When the reading is the same and the beer has clarified more, I'll bottle.

If I get time this weekend, I'll make an Irish Stout and put the primary carboy to some use. Got to have this ready for St. Patrick's Day.

Dan
 
DanInMadison said:
I'm a complete newbie. Got the kit, read the book and LHBS recipe instructions. Made my first beer. After 3 days, the heavy fermentation was slowing down. The recipe kit said to move it to the secondary after 2-3 days, so I did so. In the secondary, the fermentation took off again. The Amber kit said to bottle after 7-10 days.
I was going to bottle last night, because the fermentation lock was down to 1 buble every 60 seconds.

Thank goodness this thread!!! I'm going check my hydrometer reading tonight. I'll continue to monitor the reading every 5-7 days. When the reading is the same and the beer has clarified more, I'll bottle.

If I get time this weekend, I'll make an Irish Stout and put the primary carboy to some use. Got to have this ready for St. Patrick's Day.

Dan
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Glad you found this information useful. I think we all start off wanting good beer fast, and the kits promise that with claims like "Beer in 10 days!" or something. The truth is that fermentation can not be rushed, and you could have something like beer in 10 days, or you could wait and have great beer in 6 weeks. Your patience will be rewarded!
 
I really agree with keeping a beer in primary longer..If u transfer as soon as a beer is done fermenting than u give it no time to clean up after it self. I like to leave it a few days minimum to clean up and refine the beer. As far as leaving in secondary to long and no carbed beer..I crash cool all my beers and also leave in secondary 3 weeks plus. I left a barley wine in secondary for 3 months..crashed cooled and bottled..Carb was fine..It only takes a few yeasties to carb a beer. If I kegged I would leave in Primary and to to keg to age..


I also think that kits brings just as many new brewers as it does takes away. I think most people have the impression or belief that home beer is nasty and more often than not is harsh and bitter. If u brew, bottle and drink most of your beer in 2 weeks than yes. I think the 123 method is over done...I like to have lots of home brew on hand so when I do brew I can leave it and not even think about drinking it for months. When people drink my beer they say"this was way better than home brew I have had before.." Any high IBU beer or high OG beer is going to take even longer.

Jay
 
It's all about the Kraussen. When that subsides and your airlock is plugging away at about 1 bubble every 60-90 seconds you can't go wrong...
That's the time to move to a secondary!

Relax, have a homebrew!
 
Hogshead said:
It's all about the Kraussen. When that subsides and your airlock is plugging away at about 1 bubble every 60-90 seconds you can't go wrong...
That's the time to move to a secondary!

Relax, have a homebrew!
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In the newest brewing book Brewing Classic Styles: 80 Winning Recipes Anyone Can Brew by Jamil Zainasheff and John Palmer
IMHO two of the more respected HB authorities

they say "In general, we recommend a single-vessel fermentation for a minimum of 1 week, and not more than 4 weeks, before packaging. Racking to a secondary fermenter is not recommended except for beer requiring a long maturation, such as lagers, or beer requiring a second fermentation, such as sour ales and fruit beers."
 
SuperiorBrew said:
In the newest brewing book Brewing Classic Styles: 80 Winning Recipes Anyone Can Brew by Jamil Zainasheff and John Palmer
IMHO two of the more respected HB authorities

they say "In general, we recommend a single-vessel fermentation for a minimum of 1 week, and not more than 4 weeks, before packaging. Racking to a secondary fermenter is not recommended except for beer requiring a long maturation, such as lagers, or beer requiring a second fermentation, such as sour ales and fruit beers."
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At last, they have updated their teachings. :ban:
 
I do three weeks in the primary for all my ales. I never use a secondary. It's easy and I like the results.

I think 2 weeks in the primary is way too short. I did that for my first 2 beers and the beer took a long time (8 weeks) until the rough edges disappeared.

The extra week in the primary is like 3 weeks in the bottle in terms of overall beer taste. I often wonder what 4 weeks in the primary would do. Hmmmm....

I think it's human nature to want to mess with things... Thinking that you are going to get better results. Often times this leads to disaster. In other words if something is working... don't mess with it.
 
I'm glad I'm reading this, even with the somewhat conflicting advice. I transferred to a secondary after a week, but the bubbling had slowed to a crawl, maybe once a minute, if that. The SG was 1.012, which is correct for the recipe. Once in the secondary it bubbled for another day and then stopped. There is sediment on the bottom of the secondary and it is clearing nicely.

My question was how long I could keep it there. The recipe said 1 week, but at one week I'm not going to be home, and besides I still don't have bottles. Now I'm confident I can leave it 2 or 3 or 4 weeks if necessary.

When I did homebrewing the first time around, about 15 years ago, I didn't use a secondary. I never had any trouble once I got past my first batch. I gave it up when my shape started to resemble a carboy with arms and legs.
 
You can leave it a long long time in the carboy. I lager for up to 12 weeks sometimes, and could do it even longer. Usually I leave it about 2-4 weeks, though.
 
If I was going to add fruit to my beer ( in this cas I am gong to be making an Irish red ale and was toying with the idea of adding some raspburries to it) should I add them to the primary or secondary fermentor for the best flavor? In addition if I use the 1-2-3 method, do I need to add more yeast to the secondary fermentor or does enough transfer that I shouldn't need to worry about it?
 
is 1.020. The OG was 1.054. Its either stopped bubbling or its so slow that I dont notice it.

Should I go ahead and rack to secondary or let it sit more? I dunno, 1.020 seems kinda heavy. Thats not even 5%. I was hoping it would be more. It was a very aggressive fermentation. You might remember my "My airlock exploded..." thread from a few days ago. Had to improvise a blow off tube.

Whadya think? Wait longer? Never done a porter before.
 
Not sure. Let's see your recipe. Dark beers like porters can have a lot of non-fermentables in it so the SG can stop rather high.
 
EvilTOJ said:
Not sure. Let's see your recipe. Dark beers like porters can have a lot of non-fermentables in it so the SG can stop rather high.
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Oh yeah, my bad

Malt: 8lbs Amber malt extract syrup

Grains: 1.5 lbs Dark xstal malt
.5 lbs Black Patent Malt
.5 lbs Chocolate Malt

Hops: .75 oz Chinook @ boil
.5 oz Cascade @ 30min
.5 oz Cascade @ 50min

Yeast: White Labs London Ale
 
I racked my porter to secondary after a week and it was at 1.020. It was at 1.016 2 weeks later when I bottled it. My pale ale on the other hand went from 1.042 to 1.008 in one week.
 
I just racked my Bass clone to secondary not more than 15 minutes ago. Everything went smoothly and cleanup was a snap. Since this is my first 5gal brew, I was wondering this as I moved my carboy into my brew closet...Is it common to lose almost a gallon in between primary to secondary to both hydrometer sampling and leaving the trub in primary? I only have a little more than 4gal left...

I know i know RDWHAHB but it kind of caught me off guard...

On another similar note, I did my racking as soon as I woke up and so I did it in my PJs/barefoot. I spilt some beer on the floor when getting my grav reading so now my feet smell like beer and it is AWESOME :D
 
Jeffro said:
I racked my porter to secondary after a week and it was at 1.020. It was at 1.016 2 weeks later when I bottled it. My pale ale on the other hand went from 1.042 to 1.008 in one week.
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Yeah, I watched the airlock for about five minutes yesterday. Its still going, sure enough. Ill wait another 2-3 days and take another reading.

If its still dropping in gravity, whats the longest I should wait before going to secondary? I dont wanna leave it on the yeast cake for too long.
 
if it's still dropping in gravity, then it's not done fermenting and there is no problem leaving it on the yeast cake.

IMO you can leave it on the yeast cake for a month AFTER fermentation is finished without getting off flavors.

you should never transfer your beer to a secondary before it has finished fermenting...you're just asking to get a stuck fermentation.
 
I was told by the guy at the brew store that using the bottling bucket as a secondary was a bad idea because the spigot is not always water tight. If I don't want to use another glass carboy as a secondary because I might want to put some solid objects like dry hopping, what kind of container should I use?
 
Brewing a stout:
7 lbs jonny bull dark malt syrup
1/2 lbs chocolate malt
1/2 lbs roasted barley
2 oz fuggles hops
white labs irish ale yeast

i didn't get an O.G.

primary was looking great, thick bubbly foam for first 48 hours

i woke up to find it had slowed way down, 1 bubble every 30 sec., so I transfered it to my secondary. it's still active...1 bubble every 30 seconds BUT now i'm afraid I moved it to soon.

am i worrying for nothing ?
 
EDIT: Welcome to HBT! Didn't notice it was your first post :mug:

Assuming you had 5 gallons in your primary, your OG was 1.052, give or take.

Yes, you moved it too soon. No, you shouldn't worry.

Airlock bubbles are an inconsistent indicator of fermentation activity. If you're gong to use a secondary/clearing vessel, then (1) don't even think about touching the beer until it's been in primary for a week and (2) after a week, use your hydrometer to see if the fermentation's complete.

Your beer will be fine. If you're not sure, send one my way and I'll test it ;)
 
thanks, I know the motto about not worrying, drinking a home brew instead. but i'm a newbie !

what would be the down falls of moving it too soon?
 
Hello,

This is my first time brewing and I decided to try a lager because my home doesn't get much over 50 degrees due to lack of heating. I used a pamphlet from my brewing kit to help guide me which lead me to rack the beer after one week since there was no airlock activity. The og was 54 and at racking 18. There is still some activity in the secondary mainly groups of tiny bubbles on the surface. I have been doing some reading online and it seems I racked too early. Have I harmed my beer?
 
prighello said:
Hello,

This is my first time brewing and I decided to try a lager because my home doesn't get much over 50 degrees due to lack of heating. I used a pamphlet from my brewing kit to help guide me which lead me to rack the beer after one week since there was no airlock activity. The og was 54 and at racking 18. There is still some activity in the secondary mainly groups of tiny bubbles on the surface. I have been doing some reading online and it seems I racked too early. Have I harmed my beer?
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it's close to being done (you're at 67% attenuation and you probably want a little over 70)

you can pitch some more yeast if you'd like, but i'd just wait another couple of weeks and take a reading. how long so far in the secondary?

remember, next time don't rack until the beer is finished fermenting and you're at your target gravity!

:mug:
 
rescue brew said:
what would be the down falls of moving it too soon?
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The idea behind moving the beer to as secondary is to get it off the trub/yeast that settles out to the bottom while fermentation goes on. When you move it that early you haven't given that stuff a chance to settle out, so you moved it for no reason.

The downfall in this is that every time you touch your beer you risk infecting it.

Also, welcome to HBT
 
Jonnio said:
The idea behind moving the beer to as secondary is to get it off the trub/yeast that settles out to the bottom while fermentation goes on. When you move it that early you haven't given that stuff a chance to settle out, so you moved it for no reason.

The downfall in this is that every time you touch your beer you risk infecting it.

Also, welcome to HBT
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cool, cool... i should be fine then. I am always very careful with sanitizing everything.
 
ok, my batch of ale has been going for 2 weeks now...still has bubbles coming through the airlock. I was planning on bottling by now...and am surprised that it's still fermenting. I'll rack it if I have to, but would rather wait until it's stopped...so I can just bottle.

When is the latest I'll have to rack w/o hurting flavor?
 
You're better off leaving it long enough to make certain the primary fermentation is complete. Bottling early can cause bottle bombs - pressure building up in the bottles and creating a big mess. I like to give mine at least 2 weeks in primary since the yeast is still working even after bubbling has largely subsided, getting rid of some stuff that can cause off flavors i your final product.

In your case, though, you might just be seeing dissolved CO2 coming out of solution instead of being produced by the fermentation. You can't really know if fermentation is complete without taking a hydrometer reading. Pick up a Wine Thief and hydrometer vial so you can get readings while it's still in the fermenter without too much risk of infection.
 
Trencher said:
You're better off leaving it long enough to make certain the primary fermentation is complete. Bottling early can cause bottle bombs - pressure building up in the bottles and creating a big mess. I like to give mine at least 2 weeks in primary since the yeast is still working even after bubbling has largely subsided, getting rid of some stuff that can cause off flavors i your final product.

In your case, though, you might just be seeing dissolved CO2 coming out of solution instead of being produced by the fermentation. You can't really know if fermentation is complete without taking a hydrometer reading. Pick up a Wine Thief and hydrometer vial so you can get readings while it's still in the fermenter without too much risk of infection.
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I guess I'll have to breakdown sometime and buy the hydrometer soon. I need the wine theif and vial...because you don't just dip the hydrometer in? I don't know how they work...sigh.

what is the longest I can leave it in the primary?
 
tranceamerica said:
I guess I'll have to breakdown sometime and buy the hydrometer soon. I need the wine theif and vial...because you don't just dip the hydrometer in? I don't know how they work...sigh.

what is the longest I can leave it in the primary?
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I use a sanitized turkey baster and get my samples out that way. A hydrometer really is crucial for brewing. Super easy to use, and a great tool.

You can leave most regular beers in the primary 3-4 weeks without any issue.
 
YooperBrew said:
I use a sanitized turkey baster and get my samples out that way. A hydrometer really is crucial for brewing. Super easy to use, and a great tool.

You can leave most regular beers in the primary 3-4 weeks without any issue.
Click to expand...

that works. thanks for all the advice =)
 
tranceamerica said:
I guess I'll have to breakdown sometime and buy the hydrometer soon. I need the wine theif and vial...because you don't just dip the hydrometer in? I don't know how they work...sigh.
Click to expand...
Yeah, you've gotta have a hydrometer. Very easy to use, just float it in your liquid and read the calibrated neck. If you're using a bucket for primary you could just drop it in, but that seems like a little more chance of infection. Plus, don't you want a taste too?

YooperBrew said:
I use a sanitized turkey baster and get my samples out that way.
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A turkey baster worked great for me until I needed a sample from 4 gallons in a 6.5 glass carboy. The baster wouldn't reach and I wound up racking too soon. Again, with a bucket primary that wouldn't be a problem.
 
Next time, if you're brew is too far from the top of the carboy, just use a sanitized blow off tube or syphon tube. Just dip the tube into your beer with the other end of the hose open so air can escape. Then place your finger over the hole (forming an air lock) and lift the tube out. You should be able to get a sample out of just about anything.
 

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