When to go from Primary to Secondary (If at all)

[TerapinChef]

Yeah like I said, I am definitely not an expert! It's just a rule of thumb that someone told me.

The phrase "rule of thumb" comes from brewing.

I had thought that the term "rule of thumb" had applied to the idea that a man was only allowed to beat his wife providing the switch he hit her with was no wider than his thumb, and began a post saying you were wrong.

Now I am wrong. It appears that this myth is not true. Most sources that I saw said that it most likely began with woodworkers, but some disagreed. Anyways, the idea that it came from a brewer sticking his thumb in the wort to determine pitching temperatures is much better. I stand corrected before I even open my mouth!

 

[nedrieke]

Sometimes racking to a secondary vessel for clearing/conditioning is enough to bump start the last bit of fermentation.
Sometimes fermentation is just very slow and may take 3 times longer than you'd expect.

Okay, here is a question, that I couldn't find an answer to after searching:

I thought fermentation was finished, but after I transfered from Primary to Secondary, it started up with a vengence. What are my options?

It never really bubbled all that much to begin with, and it had been a full week since going into primary.

The brew in question is AHB's version of Heineken.

Here is what I think for options.

1. After it stops bubbling, leave in secondary for clearing?

2. Transfer to secondary (or some glass container) for clearing?

Thank you in advance for your help.

 

[Orfy]

Okay, here is a question, that I couldn't find an answer to after searching:

I thought fermentation was finished, but after I transfered from Primary to Secondary, it started up with a vengence. What are my options?

It never really bubbled all that much to begin with, and it had been a full week since going into primary.

The brew in question is AHB's version of Heineken.

Here is what I think for options.

1. After it stops bubbling, leave in secondary for clearing?

2. Transfer to secondary (or some glass container) for clearing?

Thank you in advance for your help.

The clue is in this statement.

I thought fermentation was finished, but after I transfered from Primary to Secondary, it started up with a vengence. What are my options?

The second clue is the lack of information on gravity.
You are guessing if you don't take a gravity reading.

 

[nedrieke]

that clears up a lot. I was using the 1-2-3 method, but I did take a gravity reading. I (mistakenly) thought that for some reason my gravity reading was off.

I guess my concern is what to do or where to put it once the reading is correct?

 

[Orfy]

You can leave it in the fermenter for a few more weeks until is is clear and conditioned or if you prefer you can racki it to a seperate conditing vessel.

 

[nedrieke]

It all goes back to the basics.

I should RTFM (or directions) and RDWHAHB!!!

Thanks again.

 

[Orfy]

You're learnig.
I'm sure the beer will be good.

 

[explosivebeer]

I haven't seen this question directly answered anywhere and this seems like the right thread for it.

Does it matter whether you condition your beer in primary, secondary, or a keg? Does it just need time to congeal, or does it matter whether it's sitting in my pantry in the 60s or in a fridge in the 40s?

Thanks to anyone who can offer some insight.

 

[Rivercat96]

I cut and pasted this from another thread because it was skipped over. I usually do extract brewing with ales and don't usually keep them for more than 3 or 4 weeks in the carboys. So my question is:
Has anyone out there brewed the same beer twice with the exact same ingredients and conditions with one staying in the primary for 3 weeks versus 1 week in the primary and two weeks in the secondary? To be fair both beers will also bottle condition for the same amount of time. Just curious what differences in taste were noticed. I realize that the one that is put in the secondary will be clearer but I don't really care if my beer is that clear. I'm more concerned with the taste. If there isn't a difference in taste then I will keep it simple and not rack to the secondary for normal ales. Thanks.

 

[Joker]

I have not, and don't know of any who has. However, I think if you tasted any difference at all you would have to have an amazing pallet for flavors, or just making it up to impress people. I don't see how this would effect flavors at all with that time line.

 

[Drunkensatyr]

I have. IMHO the longer you can let the beer sit on the yeast cake, the more refined the taste will be. A secondary is not really meant to change the taste as much as it is for clearing the beer.

 

[Rivercat96]

Thanks guys for getting back to me so quick. Hmmm, if there isn't a noticeable change to the taste and a minor change to the clarity I'm gonna have to use my trusty 5 gallon secondary for a primary from now on. Keep it simple is a good motto to follow with brewing, plus I'll save some time, and not risk exposing my brew to any bacteria with the transfer to a secondary. GaryA that overcast ale with chocolate and coffee sounds pretty good. How'd it turn out? When did you add the coffee to the beer, in secondary? I'm just now drinking a sweet stout that I added some chocolate to and it's fantastic.

Edit: Gary just noticed that your overcast brew is in primary still, let me know how she turns out.

 

[Rivercat96]

Drunkensatyr, you mentioned:
"...the longer you can let the beer sit on the yeast cake, the more refined the taste will be."

Isn't there a point where the yeast will begin to start feeding on themselves and create off flavors. I was reading the other day that the max time one should keep a normal gravity ale on the yeast cake is about 6 weeks. What are your thoughts and experiences? I'm not patient enought to wait this long but just curious if you think that the opposite is true and the longer the better.

 

[Joker]

Thanks guys for getting back to me so quick. Hmmm, if there isn't a noticeable change to the taste and a minor change to the clarity I'm gonna have to use my trusty 5 gallon secondary for a primary from now on. Keep it simple is a good motto to follow with brewing, plus I'll save some time, and not risk exposing my brew to any bacteria with the transfer to a secondary. GaryA that overcast ale with chocolate and coffee sounds pretty good. How'd it turn out? When did you add the coffee to the beer, in secondary? I'm just now drinking a sweet stout that I added some chocolate to and it's fantastic.

Edit: Gary just noticed that your overcast brew is in primary still, let me know how she turns out.

Will do. I plan on transferring it this weekend, since its been in the primary about 4-5 weeks now. I have taken one OG I need to back it up and see where it is sitting now.

 

[tockeyhockey]

one thing that has happened to me when i transferred to a secondary is a complete lack of carbonation in my beer once it's bottled. if you don't get it into the secondary at the right time, you'll end up with very little yeast left to carbonate the beer.

so there are some risks with using the secondary option.

personally, i've gotten my best flavor, clarity, and carbonation results by leaving my beer in my primary for three weeks then putting it in bottles for three more before even cracking the first one. often times, i will leave some of these in bottles for up to four or five months before i drink them.

 

[DeathBrewer]

Most recipe's Ive read (only about 5 or so) indicate 2weeks or less for fermentation.

If you are reading these recipes from your LHBS it is probably because most people will find letting beer sit for 2 months before they drink it VERY discouraging. The LHBS knows that if people make DECENT beer in 4 weeks, they will continue to buy from them while they improve their process.

basically it's bad advice for making great beer, but it gets more people into the hobby, so we shouldn't complain.

 

[malkore]

one thing that has happened to me when i transferred to a secondary is a complete lack of carbonation in my beer once it's bottled. if you don't get it into the secondary at the right time, you'll end up with very little yeast left to carbonate the beer.

so there are some risks with using the secondary option.

I gotta disagree.
I've seen people leave beer in secondary for 4 months, and then bottle without adding new yeast, and their beer is carb'd.

I've never had a batch not carb because of secondary, and I secondary everything but wheat beers that should be cloudy (hefe's)

 

[homebrewer_99]

IMO, forget the 1-2-3 method.

FACT: It's for people who are lazy and don't/won't use a hydrometer. If you do not learn how to use a hydrometer you are only guessing that your brew is done fermenting.

FACT: If you get a stuck fermentation then rouse your yeast at bottling time you will be bottling still fermenting beer. The results will be excessive foaming and bottle grenades.

FACT: If you learn how to use your hydrometer you will be able to track the progress of the fermentation and know that your brew is ready for racking and/or bottling. All the guess work is removed.

 

[Kulprit]

Ok so it looks like the beer is just about done now in the primary. It went for about 8 days or so.

Just curious - since we all work and it's the first batch we have ever done - I figured I would try to wait till next weekend to xfer over to the secondary. Being the first batch we wanted to make every effort to do it all with everyone there. Later batches it wont really matter as much.

I know some people don't even go to secondary - so I assume an extra week in the primary wont do any damage but wanted to get any advice you guys might have.

thanks.

 

[Poindexter]

Two weeks in plastic is fine, three is fine too if one of your party in unavoidably delayed.

 

[Brakeman_Brewing]

The biggest advantage to racking to secondary is freeing up that bucket so you can start another batch!

 

[stale]

2 wks. is fine. I've seen a lot of the guys on this forum use the 3-2-1 method....ie:3wks primary, 2wks. secondary, 1 wk. bottled or kegged. I read somewhere recently that leaving it in the primary for a couple xtra wks after noticable fermentation has comp;eted allows the beer to condition better. I've personally started leaving mine in for at least 2 wks primary then 2wks. secondary and 1 week in keg. THEN I start sampling..and samplin...and samplin. Damn just can't quit the sampling. mMMMMMMMMM!

 

[uglygoat]

sometimes up to six weeks in primary won't set you back at all. enjoy....

 

[homebrewer_99]

Within reason the length of time in the primary is not the important factor...the fact that it's done fermenting is... Check your gravity before racking to make sure it's done. Guessing only leads to disappointment.

 

[Kulprit]

thanks guys - pretty much what I figured.

Now when I am ready to move to the secondary I am going to have to move the carboys - do you think I should move them a day or so early to allow the stuff to settle down again or does the sediment pack itself down pretty good and wont mix up when I move it to another room?

 

[Yooper]

I try to move mine early in the day or the night before, so it can resettle.

 

[ChesterCopperpot]

I racked my first batch of beer into my secondary after my air lock stoped bubbling completly. This was after sitting in the primary fermenter for only 2 days. I know now that I probably should have let it sit for another 3-4 days. Will I encounter any problems by racking it to the secondry after 2 days? I forgot to take a starting SG reading, but when I racked it to the secondary it was at 1.040 and now, 2 days later, it's between 1.035 and 1.030. The instructions say the finishing gravity should be at or below 1.015 which seems a bit low to me, but I'm a newbie so I could be compleetly wrong. I still plan on letting it sit for 2-3 weeks before bottling. Am I just parinoid, what do you guys think? Thanks.

 

[Yooper]

I think you moved it too early! You should be at the fg before you transfer. That said, maybe it'll start up again and finish where it's supposed to. Remember 1-2-3- one week (at least) in primary, 2 weeks in the conditioning tank (secondary) and 3 in the bottle before drinking. I usually leave mine 10 days to 2 weeks in the fermenter before racking.

 

[Dr Vorlauf]

Let it sit for 3 weeks take hydrometer readings a few days apart. If they are in line with the recipe bottle or keg the brew.

what style of beer and what yeast did you use?

 

[the_Roqk]

Yes it was a little too early. But just let it sit in your secondary for atleast a week. Then take a reading and by then it should be around your target FG. Just remember the old 123 method and you can't go wrong. Once you've done a few batches it will be easier to remember.

 

[ChesterCopperpot]

It's a dark ale and I just used the yeast that came with the kit. It was Muntons in a little yellow pack. Is it possible for the fermentation to be done allready?

 

[Yooper]

At 1.030 or so, it's a long way from done! I'd expect around 1.014-1.016 before thinking it might be done, if your instructions state 1.015.

Just leave it alone for a couple of weeks and check it again. Here's a link to the sticky just above this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=43014

 

[ChesterCopperpot]

Hey thanks. I didn't expect my first batch to be perfect, I just want it to be drinkable. Do you think it will at least be drinkable?

 

[Yooper]

Absolutely! It might even be great! Just wait for it to finish fermenting, and you should be all set!

 

[ChesterCopperpot]

Cool, I'll remember the 1-2-3 rule for my next batch. I am glad I found this place. It's allways nice to find good support for a new hobby!

 

[The Bone2]

This may seem like common sense, but I have run this question through my head and can't come up with an answer. WHY is transferring the beer to a secondary going to make the beer any cleaner? If you siphon directly from the primary, and don't get the siphon in the yeast cake, wouldn't the final product be virtually the same? Does the sediment settle better when the initial yeast cake has been eliminated? If this is the biggest difference, it seems like two weeks would be an inordinate amount of time. Why not rack to a secondary, let it sit for a day or two, and then bottle?

 

[Beerthoven]

This may seem like common sense, but I have run this question through my head and can't come up with an answer. WHY is transferring the beer to a secondary going to make the beer any cleaner? If you siphon directly from the primary, and don't get the siphon in the yeast cake, wouldn't the final product be virtually the same? Does the sediment settle better when the initial yeast cake has been eliminated? If this is the biggest difference, it seems like two weeks would be an inordinate amount of time. Why not rack to a secondary, let it sit for a day or two, and then bottle?

That's a good question, and I don't think anyone has a good answer.

Using a secondary was important way back in the day when yeast was more likely to be infected/contaminated. You really wanted to get the beer away from the trub. Its not as important anymore now that we have nice clean high quality yeast to use.

I read some biology papers a while ago that seemed to say that the physical disturbance of the beer caused by racking caused the yeast to flocculate and settle, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it really makes.

Lots of people don't use secondaries anymore. In their new book (Brewing Classic Styles), Jamil Zainasheff and John Palmer say this: "In general, we recommend a single-vessel fermentation for a minimum of 1 week, and not more than 4 weeks, before packaging. Racking to a secondary fermenter is not recommended except for beer requiring a long maturation, such as lagers, or beer requiring a second fermentation, such as sour ales and fruit beers."

 

[Jeffro]

I'm in pretty much the same boat. Racked over to secondary after three days in the primary because mine also seemed to stop. But I did take an OG last Friday that was 1.052 and it dropped to 1.022 by Saturday afternoon, then down to 1.018 by Sunday afternoon. Then on Monday I racked over to secondary to try to get it going again and it's still sitting at 1.016-018.

I'll be out of town for the next few days, but as long as the SG doesn't change between now and then I'm gonna bottle on Sunday!!!!!

 

[TheSchwill]

I have batch #2 in the primary right now, it is an Ale Pale, I have an additional Ale Pale type bucket with a tap on the bottom that was used for bottling in the first batch.

The first batch was in the primary for 12 days, then siphoned to the second bucket, bottled and drank after 14 days. A secondary was not used, the hydrometer was used to measure the gravity only once, when bottling. We followed the directions from a book, using a kit purchased on the internet. It turned out fine, however, there was noticeable residue at the bottom of each bottle. we siphoned from the primary tank to the bottling tank and there was still residue left over in the bottom of the bottling tank. Will using a secondary fermenting tank eliminate most of the residue?

After finding this site a few hours ago and reading the wiki and this thread, I am thoroughly confused. Batch #2 was put in the primary fermentation tank last night at 8:30pm, bubbles were already starting to appear in the airlock at 2:30pm today. Is it advised to open the tank after 7-10 days, check the gravity, seal it, then open, check gravity and seal the next day if it isn't ready? I have read that you should not open the tank until it is ready in order to prevent bacteria from entering. Should we use the plastic carboy or the other bucket with the tap as a secondary fermenting tank? Also, will siphoning from the primary to the secondary remove most of the residue that is left behind? Do you then siphon into another tank for bottling?

 

[TheDuke]

Just wanted to say that this thread is great. I am only on my second batch, but am certainly interested in getting a glass carboy at some point. Once that happens, I'll probably try racking into a secondary for s&g's.

Thanks!