9-9-9

Yakima 728
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I don't know how I missed this. I'm in for the Blondoppelbock, no doubt about it. I'd like to nominate myself as Brewpastor's Official Lackey again, I love gruntwork.

Sure, I don't have temp control or anything.............but I have a few months to shop. ;)
 
I'd be up for the doppelbock as well, but I still like tripel idea. If you haven't seen the recipe in post 29, check it out.
 
I'm so effing in for the blonde doppelbock idea. I've got enough Tripel in backstock to inebriate a small village, so a nice clean golden bock would be very cool...
 
I like to get in on this assuming we don't have to lager. If we go with the doppelbock, would it be cool for me to use the kolsch yeast?
 
I like where Soulive is going with this - I might actually make 1 batch of lagered Doppelbock, and a 2nd pilot batch with Kolsch yeast like you're suggesting. Should be fun!!!

If the tripel is chosen for "the" recipe, I will probably not participate. Not a fan of Dubbels/Trippels. Sour beers, however, are delicious, even if they're hard to make and take a lot of time. But I won't let myself get into sours until I've got all my other equipment whipped into shape, and can focus on buying a 2nd set of gear. :D
 
Hmmm, I may call mine "The Blonde Imperator" which makes for a nice contrast to my more classic Doppelbock.

As with any big beer, temp control is very crucial. I had many bocks in Germany that had a fairly sharp alcohol taste. Which means that even many German breweries don't get it right. This is actually more important for a big lager than lagering at near feezing temps.

I'm in on this and may want to try to push the efficiency boundaries with my 5 gal set-up to get to 20+ *P.

Kai
 
I'm down for either one, but would definitely favor the Doppelbock. And I already have all the ingredients on hand! That Capitol brew Yooper mentioned is good stuff. I should be able to get some soon. Would be perfect to sip whilst brewing this 999.

I'd think those that are lager-challenged could sub with a good Koslch yeast or even a Cali Common/Steam yeast like White Labs WLP810 or Wyeast 2112 and come up with a tasty brew.
 
A doppelsteamer. Interesting!

Big things that I think are "Pro"s:
- Simple grain bill means Steep or PM are both very easy to accomplish
- Simple hop schedule means that we're not at a huge risk for shortage-related incidents
- Many yeast choices ensure that we have the opportunity to experiment while still maintaining conformity
- Has a very good "commercial" counterpart to drink whilst brewing!

MAN I'm getting excited now. There's no way I'm waiting till August. I might just have to brew 3 of these puppies!!!!!!

Again, I know we're... oh, only 18 months early...... but if you need a swap manager. :)
 
Kaiser said:
Hmmm, I may call mine "The Blonde Imperator" which makes for a nice contrast to my more classic Doppelbock.

As with any big beer, temp control is very crucial. I had many bocks in Germany that had a fairly sharp alcohol taste. Which means that even many German breweries don't get it right. This is actually more important for a big lager than lagering at near feezing temps.

I'm in on this and may want to try to push the efficiency boundaries with my 5 gal set-up to get to 20+ *P.

Kai
Click to expand...

Temp control makes such a difference, especially if you are trying to nail a style and balance. Those hot alcohols can really funk out big beers, ales included, but it really comes through on these clean lagers.

Kai, what about the recipe? Thoughts and ideas anyone?

In making the recipe I was once again trying to work with the "9" factor and so the color, IBUs, and gravity set some boundries. The piece I am bouncing around with is the Melanoidin malt. I think with this beer and its blonde character we will want to be careful not to get too much of that character in the beer. Don't want to gum it up with flavors.
 
paulthenurse said:
BP
I have not used melanoidin before. What are it's charactoristics that concern you?
Click to expand...

It gives a toasty character, which will also come out of the Munich, so It may not be needed. I don't want the malt character to be too one sided.
 
I'm definitely in on this one, and I even have experience to boot where blonde doppelbocks are concerned. Here's the thread I posted regarding a blond doppelbock I made Nov of '07:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=44752

**note: the final recipe ended up being 8# pilsner malt, 6# vienna, and 2# Munich (5 gallon batch).
OG: 1.094 @ approx. 80% eff.

A few comments I have since sampling my version:

- While it's not too far off, it's certainly no "clone" of Capital's blonde doppelbock -A beer I think we should attempt to emulate w/ the 9-9-9.

-I performed a triple decoction and the color ended up just a shade too dark. Perhaps about 8-9 SRM, where I was shooting for 6-7.

-I would like a bit more bready character than I acheived, though I'm not sure how to get it w/out increasing the Munich which would throw off the color even more.

-Also, dispite the triple decoction, it's still not malty enough. I think that a small addition of aromatic malt could help liven it up some in that regard. I'd stay away from melanoidin malt though, unless you cut back on the Munich. IMO, the key to a great blonde doppelbock is to make it drinkable enough that the unsuspecting person doesn't even recognize it as a doppelbock until it's too late - i.e. they're on the floor. If you give it too much body, you may reduce that drinkability.

-I'm torn between Vienna and Munich malts. I'm not sure if the recipe needs a combination of each or just one or the other.

As far as yeast goes, my suggestions would be the WLP833 or Wyeast 2308 munich lager (or WLP838).

That's all I got for now.
 
Brewpastor said:
It gives a toasty character, which will also come out of the Munich, so It may not be needed. I don't want the malt character to be too one sided.
Click to expand...

I thought melanoidin malt mostly just added body w/out affecting flavor/color much.

edit: I'm wrong.

Move along... nothing to see here.
 
Brewpastor said:
Kai, what about the recipe? Thoughts and ideas anyone?
Click to expand...

No, the recipe is nice and simple. It's bascally a Maibock or Oktoberfest at Doppelbock strength. I haven't used Melanodin before though, so I can't say much about its effects. It would be nice if it gives the beer some redish hue.

Kai
 
i'm still 100% with the doppelbock...a triple would be a maybe (although i'll probably do one before that.)

i'm kinda thinking i'd just drop the melanoid and aromatic malts, up the munich a bit and go for a true triple-decoction mash...make a day of it. hopefully i'll have my process down by then. looks like it's time to do another hefeweizen and get some practice in! :)

i'm also with madtown on possibly some vienna. isn't vienna lighter in color, btw? couldn't you drop your munich and JUST have vienna...making it a lighter brew that still has a malty backbone?
 
If it looks like we're goingthe doppelbock route, I'm all aboard. And I'll make my own stinking tripel! :D
 
When would we actually be brewing this beer? I definately want to be a part of the experience, but a lager is definately not feasible right now. I imagine since we are a year and a half away that this isn't something that's going to happen anytime soon, unless we are planning on some serious bottle aging.
 
at the beginning of the thread someone mentioned 08/08/08, which would give you over 6 months and which is why i agreed (not doing lagering yet, but looking for a good deal!)
 
DeathBrewer said:
i
i'm kinda thinking i'd just drop the melanoid and aromatic malts, up the munich a bit and go for a true triple-decoction mash...make a day of it. hopefully i'll have my process down by then. looks like it's time to do another hefeweizen and get some practice in! :)
Click to expand...

Depending on what kind of Munich you are using (light or dark), if you go over 15 % for this beer I would start getting worried about it still being a blonde. I'd cap it at 15% dark munich. Keeping the Aromatic and Melanodin out is fine. Aromatic is supposed to be a stronger munich anyway.

I brew an Oktoberfest with 80% Pilsner and 20% dark Munich and the beer would basically a stonger version of that. The amount of Munich would stay the same and the pilsner is increased to up the OG.

Kai
 
DeathBrewer said:
i'm kinda thinking i'd just drop the melanoid and aromatic malts, up the munich a bit and go for a true triple-decoction mash...make a day of it. hopefully i'll have my process down by then. looks like it's time to do another hefeweizen and get some practice in!
Click to expand...

Kaiser said:
Depending on what kind of Munich you are using (light or dark), if you go over 15 % for this beer I would start getting worried about it still being a blonde. I'd cap it at 15% dark munich. Keeping the Aromatic and Melanodin out is fine. Aromatic is supposed to be a stronger munich anyway.

I brew an Oktoberfest with 80% Pilsner and 20% dark Munich and the beer would basically a stonger version of that. The amount of Munich would stay the same and the pilsner is increased to up the OG.

Kai
Click to expand...

Agreed. I think that the darkening effect of decoction will cause it to be not-so-blonde. I even think that dark Munich would be too much, unless you cut the amount some. Northern Brewer lists Durst Dark Munich @ 15.5 L, which (at 20%)puts the beer in the ~9 SRM range, by my figurin'.
 
This is what 20% dark Munich and 5 min mash-out decoction boil look like in a 13 *P (1.052) beer:

Oktoberfest_I.jpg


I wouldn't mind that color for the DoppelBondeBock.

Kai
 
Kaiser said:
This is what 20% dark Munich and 5 min mash-out decoction boil look like in a 13 *P (1.052) beer:

I wouldn't mind that color for the DoppelBondeBock.

Kai
Click to expand...

No doubt it looks good....

<runs to pour a beer to quench the salivating thirst>

not sure I'd call it a "blonde" though.
 
Madtown Brew said:
not sure I'd call it a "blonde" though.
Click to expand...

I hear you. Let's settle on 10% dark munich or 20% light munich. Or we go all blone by only using Pils. But I'm afraid that this may not result in an interestig enoug beer.

Kai
 
If we go by the German definition of Bock and Doppelbock, as stated by the tax law, the yeast doesn't matter the only thing that matters is the starting gravity. For a Bock it needs to be >= 16*P (1.064 SG) and for a Doppelbock it needs to be >=18*P (1.072 SG). Though you may get a different charcter, you can also use ale yeast for a Bockbier, though I have not seen a Koelsch at bock strength. The Sticke Alt should qualify as a bock, though It's not called that. Bocks are southern German beer styles and the only top fermenting southern beers are wheats. This might explain why there aren't any Koelsh or Alt bocks.

Kai
 
Kaiser said:
If we go by the German definition of Bock and Doppelbock, as stated by the tax law, the yeast doesn't matter the only thing that matters is the starting gravity. For a Bock it needs to be >= 16*P (1.064 SG) and for a Doppelbock it needs to be >=18*P (1.072 SG). Though you may get a different charcter, you can also use ale yeast for a Bockbier, though I have not seen a Koelsch at bock strength. The Sticke Alt should qualify as a bock, though It's not called that. Bocks are southern German beer styles and the only top fermenting southern beers are wheats. This might explain why there aren't any Koelsh or Alt bocks.

Kai
Click to expand...

I agree with the wheat aspect. I would go the weizenbock route but I don't think it'll work. Perhaps just an appropriate yeast, ramped up via starter after starter...
 
Kaiser said:
I hear you. Let's settle on 10% dark munich or 20% light munich. Or we go all blone by only using Pils. But I'm afraid that this may not result in an interestig enoug beer.

Kai
Click to expand...

YooperBrew said:
I think we need some munich. All pils malt wouldn't be complex enough to qualify for the dopplebock.
Click to expand...

Definitely agree. Heck, I used close to 40% vienna and 10% munich in my version and I still don't think it was "complex" enough.
 
I'd drop the Melanoidin malt and go with Munich over Vienna. Of the two, Munich malt has more melanoidins. The darker the grade of Munich, the stronger the melanoidin content. Using Melanoidin malt will put it too over the top, IMHO.
 
yeah for us without lagering capabilities, would wlp029 work out ok, or should we go with a nottingham/us-05 for a clean neutral ferment?
 
I say that we let the yeast be determined by the brewer and go with two options. I don't want to not lager when I have the ability, but don't want others left out who can't lager. I suggest the 833 and whatever kolsch people prefer.

As for the malt discussion, I agree with dropping the Aromatic and the Melanoidin and share the concern over keeping some complexity in the beer, particularly if people are not decocting. I like the 10% dark Munich or 20% light munich suggestion and would lean more towards the 20% light. I would also consider a blend of the 2, maybe 15% light and 5% dark. This would both boost the color and add complexity.
 
I'm hoping to have lager capabilities by this fall, so I'll probably be in for this one. I need to make myself one of those Igloo cooler mods Yooper has since I don't see a fridge/freezer in my near future.

As for recipe, I'll leave it in the hands of BP. The 8-8-8 seems to be turning out just fine. :)
 
Yeah, I'm definitely in as well. Guess I have 8 months to get my lagering equipment.....as if I actually needed another excuse.
 

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