Another way to lower ph after adding lacto for a BW?

[toddo97]

I just brewed for the second time this afternoon (first batch is still bottle conditioning so i don't know how that turned out ). I used a 2.5 gallon BW kit that called for a 15 minute boil followed by addition of lacto. Let sit for a week, then pitch the yeast and sit for another week. That sounds like a long souring time based on what i've read, but i figured i'll follow what came in the kit. My problem is that after I added the lacto, i did a search on the strain (delbrueckii) and found out that the lowest ph i can hope for is about 4.4 vs around 3.3 for brevis. I like really sour beer so I'm disappointed that i'm not going to get the pucker factor i like. I know It's probably too late, but is there anything i can add/do to make this more sour? thanks!

 

[microbusbrewery]

You can add food grade lactic acid post fermemtation, but you can run into a problem where it tastes too clean IMO. I've had good results using GoodBelly SuperShot (L. planetarium). If you're doing it at room temp, a week should bring the pH down between 3.3-3.4.

 

[toddo97]

If I get the Good Belly by around Wednesday, can I add it to the Lacto that's already in there and then still pitch the yeast on Sunday or is that something I should try for my next batch?

Thanks again

 

[microbusbrewery]

You could do it with this one. I use the GoodBelly for kettle souring but my berliner process is very similar to what you're doing. In the past I've pitched Wyeast 5335 and let it go for about a week at room temp before pitching a sach/brett blend (e.g. Wyeast 3191). With that process, I've gotten the pH as low as 2.98 which is pretty darn sour. Oh, and I'll use aged hops, so essentially 0 IBUs. Low IBUs is really important if you want a really sour beer. You don't mention hops above, but if you used enough to get you much above 6 IBUs, I'd probably hold off and use the GoodBelly next time.

 

[radwizard]

Have you thought about adding an acidic fruit to it? That is probably what I would do in your situation. That way you can get a little bit more pucker on it, and brew a new one with revised methods based on what you learned from this batch.

 

[toddo97]

I'll look for Goodbelly tomorrow--according to their site, they should have it at my local Harris Teeter. The kit came with 1/4 of Perle hops to go into the boil, but I got spooked reading about the effect of hops on souring so I decided to try to dry hop with them.

I thought about maybe trying to add some pineapple to help flavor and maybe sour it a bit more. How much would you suggest for 2 1/2 gallons and could I add it when I pitch the yeast?

 

[radwizard]

I've never used pineapple. I usually use a table on milk the funk's wiki for a general idea, and kinda do it to taste. I've added fresh brett at the time of fruit as well.

 

[toddo97]

Thanks for the wiki reference--I think I'm going to try adding fruit to a gallon in a separate jug and keep the rest as is. I may try the lactic acid approach if it's not very sour. How long does it take for the Good Belly to do its thing? A week?

Thanks again

 

[microbusbrewery]

How long does it take for the Good Belly to do its thing? A week?

Thanks again

It should fully sour within a week at room temp. At warmer temps (~95F), it can sour in significantly less time...reportedly less than 24 hours (see http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Alternative_Bacteria_Sources). I use it at room temp and usually let it go for about 5 days...it just depends on how busy I get during the week. I'm not sure if it's the buffering capacity of my local water, but it usually takes mine at least three days at room temp to get down in the 3.3-3.4 range, but it seems to work faster for others. One thing with this strain, it's capable of both homo and hetero fermentation. You can kind of force homo by limiting oxygen which will result in primarily producing lactic acid. In the presence of oxygen, it tends to ferment hetero which results in lactic acid, ethanol, and sometimes acetic acid.

 

[toddo97]

One thing with this strain, it's capable of both homo and hetero fermentation. You can kind of force homo by limiting oxygen which will result in primarily producing lactic acid. In the presence of oxygen, it tends to ferment hetero which results in lactic acid, ethanol, and sometimes acetic acid.

So i'm guessing homo is preferable? and thanks for the link--lots of good sour info!

 

[microbusbrewery]

So i'm guessing homo is preferable? and thanks for the link--lots of good sour info!

Yeah, a little bit of acetic acid can add some complexity in sours, but a Berliner should really get its sourness from lactic acid.

 

[saltymirv]

I recently added a pound of tamarind paste to 2.5 gallons of Kolsch. I didn't realize this would happen, but it made the beer very sour! Tamarind has a lot of tartaric acid in it and also gives a citrus element.

I used 1lb of paste, the package looked remotely like this: http://www.templeofthai.com/images/products/2210481132.jpg

I rehydrated it in about 2L of hot water. It took a while to break up all the clubs and hydrate everything. Then I strained the solids out and I pasteurized the liquid by coming close to a boil.

 

[isomerization]

I recently made a Pineapple berliner that came out really well (imo). For about 4.5 gallon of beer, I used 3 pineapples that I processed as follows: 1) cut into chunks, 2) puree/blend up as well as you can, 3) push through a sieve to remove solids, 4) "pasteurize" juice at about 170F for about 5-10 min (this should help kill any nasties AND denature the bromelain protease found in pineapple). I added this juice about 5 days before kegging my beer. There is definitely an added tartness to this beer versus a gose I did that ended with almost exactly the same final pH (could be a salt thing too, not sure).

 

[toddo97]

I recently made a Pineapple berliner that came out really well (imo). For about 4.5 gallon of beer, I used 3 pineapples that I processed as follows: 1) cut into chunks, 2) puree/blend up as well as you can, 3) push through a sieve to remove solids, 4) "pasteurize" juice at about 170F for about 5-10 min (this should help kill any nasties AND denature the bromelain protease found in pineapple). I added this juice about 5 days before kegging my beer. There is definitely an added tartness to this beer versus a gose I did that ended with almost exactly the same final pH (could be a salt thing too, not sure).

That's good to know about the pineapple. I was planning on cutting it up and crushing it, but removing the solids will make it easier to clean. I wasn't planning on heating it but I think I will now--what does the bromelain protease do if it's not denatured? I believe I saw your signature in another post and is what gave me the idea to try adding pineapple in the first place!

 

[isomerization]

That's good to know about the pineapple. I was planning on cutting it up and crushing it, but removing the solids will make it easier to clean. I wasn't planning on heating it but I think I will now--what does the bromelain protease do if it's not denatured? I believe I saw your signature in another post and is what gave me the idea to try adding pineapple in the first place!

Bromelain is a collection of proteases, if not denatured it can destroy the proteins in your beer (in theory), eliminating head foam and body. I read tons of posts from people that said adding pineapple to their beer ruined it, so I was kinda worried. But this beer turned out great, so either this heating step helped or others has different problems?

 

[toddo97]

Bromelain is a collection of proteases, if not denatured it can destroy the proteins in your beer (in theory), eliminating head foam and body. I read tons of posts from people that said adding pineapple to their beer ruined it, so I was kinda worried. But this beer turned out great, so either this heating step helped or others has different problems?

Then I'll heat for sure--thanks. BTW, how difficult was your watermelon gose? I'd love to brew a gose before the summer is over.

 

[isomerization]

Then I'll heat for sure--thanks. BTW, how difficult was your watermelon gose? I'd love to brew a gose before the summer is over.

Super easy, check out Morrey's thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=594994

I made a standard gose (1 oz each of salt and cracked coriander), then freeze concentrated the juice of 1 large watermelon along with a hibiscus petal tea (1 oz dry petals). Gave a very nice color, kind of like rose.