schmurf
Well-Known Member
Many of the old Durden Park recipes calls for a maturation time for at least 3 months due to the heavy hopping rate, at least according to one of the authors.
I really wonder what the deal was with these 4-12 months ales. All my English ales are far beyond their peak after 4 months, except the barley wine. Do you know what might be the difference here between modern bitters and these keeping ales that moved their peak time to past 4 months?
Thanks mate, that is A LOT of hops. Neipa suddenly does not seem to be that new any more....They didn't have much in common with modern bitter - they were double the strength and way more hopped. As usual, you can get a good feel from Ron's recipes and snippets of history, but as an exterme, the 1851 William Younger XXS was 1.125 OG, 1.050 FG for 9.9% ABV (more once the Brett had got to it), with 27g/l (!!!) of hops added in the copper, which Ron translates as 137 IBU.
Who said Scottish beers weren't hoppy?
It is basically the fore runner to bitter, usually pale though.
Alrighty, then. Time for me to brew up an AK.
85% Fawcett Optic
5% Flaked Corn
10% DIY Invert
FWH EKG 3.5%AA 2-7/8oz (49IBU calc'd as 60m)
0m EKG 3.5%AA 1oz
Dry Hop EKG 3.5%AA 1/8oz (.25g/l)
Mash 60m @ 152°F
Boil 60m
OG 1.043
FG 1.012
Pub @ 68°F
BU:GU=1.13
that sounds mighty tasty. Curious to see what you think of the C65 versus corn, and how balanced that may be. I did a side by side, and one with corn and one without (didn't substitute crystal). The one without was very unbalanced and harsh without the corn sweetness to mellow it out
question. As a US brewer just getting into brewing UK styles, AK seems very similar to British summer/golden recipes I’ve seen, but with the corn and sugar addition. Not sure if British summer ales are even a real thing, but would you say they are comparable at all? When I’ve had them, I always thought they tasted like a pale bitter
Curious to see what you think of the C65 versus corn, and how balanced that may be.
I personally see no connection to Windsor taste-wise. Also flocculation is much better and the yeast tend to stick to the bottom of the bottle once fully settled.If you like the 1099, then try a mix with S-04. Whitbread was a multi strain and S-04 supposedly was one of the multi strains isolated out to become a dry strain.
Full disclosure, I haven't actually tried 1099 or Verdant. I have tried the WLP017 and S-04 both as stand alone brews, and by far the crowd pleaser was WLP017 + S-04.
I do need to try Verdant, but folks have said it is a derivative or reminiscent of Windsor, which frankly is not one of my keeper yeasts. Your mileage may vary.
I do need to try Verdant, but folks have said it is a derivative or reminiscent of Windsor,
Derivative of 1318.
I do need to try Verdant, but folks have said it is a derivative or reminiscent of Windsor
I think I have my AK dialed in now. This is my best AK so far:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/miraculix-easy-ak-pale-mild-ale.696180/
That's what I posted it forStealing and will brew sometime soon in the next 6 months. Thanks and cheers.
I made an AK once with 20% corn and rest base malt. Wasn't watered down at all, but I also couldn't taste the corn in any specific way. Tasted like base malt to me. Others swear that they get "corn sweetness"from corn. I wonder if the corn variety plays a role, but so far, with European varieties, I was never able to taste it.I'd rather fuss around with making invert sugar which will no doubt add some flavors, than use flaked corn which I'm not sure if I could taste at the end anyway, maybe but maybe not. I'm not a huge fan of adjuncts like corn, rice, etc. if they don't do anything besides watering down the beer basically.
The flaked corn seemed to be in the AK recipes for a couple of decades before WW2. \I'd rather fuss around with making invert sugar which will no doubt add some flavors, than use flaked corn which I'm not sure if I could taste at the end anyway, maybe but maybe not. I'm not a huge fan of adjuncts like corn, rice, etc. if they don't do anything besides watering down the beer basically.
This is prolly still my favorite AK recipe, including the bespoke birthday recipe that Ron Pattinson found for me from 17 June 1925 (right day but just a tad few years before I was born!). Let me say this again, if you like Shut Up About, the least you could do is spring for Ron finding you a bespoke recipe from your birthday according to what you're looking for. My kidlet pinged Ron for a low alcohol beer for me, and he went back a couple of decades to find an AK (similiar to the link above) brewed on my birthday. Good stuff!
I would do the last option, as this sounds like the easiest way to me. Also, you will not loose anything which might be extracted from the grain during the first run off, which the partygile might be lmissing.I am curious how the AK were parti-gyled back when they were produced commercially. What would of been other the beers produced at the same time? Did they combine running or would each sparge be a separate beer?
The grain bill of the AKs has some similarities to a Classic American Pilsner so I was thinking of trying to get an AK and a CAP out of the same brew day. Maybe do a 3 running batch sparge mash and use mostly the first running and third runnings for the CAP and the middle runnings and some of the first runnings to do the AK. It also looks like I could just do a single larger batch and divide up and add water to the wort to get the AK preboil wort.
Yes, AK was often parti-gyled. At Fullers, with two stronger Bitters. The mash and sparge worts were boiled separately and then blended post boil. All the beers had a mix of the two worts. Pretty sure I've posted some details of the gyling on my blog. Somewhere amongst the 6,000 or so posts.I am curious how the AK were parti-gyled back when they were produced commercially. What would of been other the beers produced at the same time? Did they combine running or would each sparge be a separate beer?
The grain bill of the AKs has some similarities to a Classic American Pilsner so I was thinking of trying to get an AK and a CAP out of the same brew day. Maybe do a 3 running batch sparge mash and use mostly the first running and third runnings for the CAP and the middle runnings and some of the first runnings to do the AK. It also looks like I could just do a single larger batch and divide up and add water to the wort to get the AK preboil wort.
Feel free to ask me any questions if anything isn't clear. Always happy to help.@patto1ro, Thanks for the comments. I know I had looked at your blog in the past for parti-gyling information but I don't recall seeing this post. That post explains things pretty well, but I think it will take a few more rereads to get all the details presented.
Boiling and combining would be less than ideal for the AK and CAP but I think it could still work. Looking like two brew days after all.
Thank you for your offer to answer questions and all of the information you provide in your blog.Feel free to ask me any questions if anything isn't clear. Always happy to help.
I've never seen crystal in an ak, and the hooping rate is usually lower then the bitter's.For some time now I have been brewing a best bitter according to @Northern_Brewer recommendation of 90% base malt and 10% some combination of crystal and/or sugar. Hopping pretty much follows most of the Wheeler recipes of a 60min bitter charge and a modest 10min charge. Would this qualify as a AK?
The earlier AK recipes seem to be base malt and maybe sugar without the use of maize, that is why I ask.
Sounds good to me!I did end up doing a split batch of beer creating a CAP and a AK. I collected and divided wort before the boil so I could hop both halves differently. I did use a combination of two running from a single mash.
The AK portion was hop according to this recipe,
Let's Brew Wednesday - 1933 Kidd AK
The grain was different but was roughly
40% maris otter
40% US 6row
13% flaked corn
7% homemade invert(light amber color done in pressure cooker)
wlp013 london ale(needed to use up, first and most likely last time using)
It has been in the keg for a few days.
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