First Pilsner...Step Mash or No Step Mash?

[arnobg]

About 20 very successful all grain brews under my belt now and ready to step up my game to my first lager. Will be brewing a Bohemian style Pilsner with only Weyermann Pilsner Malt and a little Carapils. From what I have read Weyermann Pilsner Malt (not using the Bohemian or floor malted Bohemian) is still slightly under-modified and may benefit from a step mash?

I have read conflicting arguments though, that a protein rest and step mash could hurt body and head retention, but I don't understand this since it is slightly under-modifed. Maybe these arguments refer to more modified Pilsner Malts?

I don't want to jump right into a decoction mash so I am hoping to gain something over doing a straight up single infusion mash. I BIAB full volume or sparge with 1 gallon if needed for volume (shouldn't need to with this small grain bill) so should I or should I not do a multi-step mash with this malt?

 

[porterpounder]

Stick with a single infusion if not using the floor malted as you said.

 

[schematix]

Mash in with 1.5 qt/lb at 145F. Hold it for 20 min. Raise it to 158F. Hold it for 30 min. Raise it to 168F. Hold it for 10 min.

I personally find the beer has better body and attenuation with the step mash profile above.

 

[dmtaylor]

Mash in with 1.5 qt/lb at 145F. Hold it for 20 min. Raise it to 158F. Hold it for 30 min. Raise it to 168F. Hold it for 10 min.

I personally find the beer has better body and attenuation with the step mash profile above.

+1. I was a single infusion believer until I met a guy who brewed a pilsner like 6 or 7 times in a row, and when I tasted his last one I was like oh my God, this is the best I've ever tasted in my life. He swears that the step schedule above, which was used in the one I tasted, was the absolute key to success. He's very happy with how that compares with single infusion. I've yet to try this myself but after tasting it, I have to believe he's onto something, because man oh man was it ever great. He used a Bock yeast he said, I don't know which.

But don't do a protein rest. That would be a bad idea. Skip anything 122-131 F.

 

[Double_D]

I know specifically you're asking about mashing but what are you planning regarding the other key factors of lager brewing?

I'm thinking the mash is a good idea.

 

[arnobg]

With doing BIAB do I really need to do 1.5 qt/ gallon when I can step the entire thing with direct heat?

My water chemistry additions/calculations are based off of full volume mash.

 

[schematix]

Mash in with 1.5 qt/lb at 145F. Hold it for 20 min. Raise it to 158F. Hold it for 30 min. Raise it to 168F. Hold it for 10 min.

I personally find the beer has better body and attenuation with the step mash profile above.

This is a basically a Hochkurz Mash.

I like to jokingly refer to at as the Mike Hochkurz Mash.... sounds funnier if you say it out loud.

I've started using it on other beer styles as well. Not convinced it's the best for all styles but unquestionably it makes a finer Pilsner.

 

[wyowolf]

So is that mash schedule for ANY Pils? I am getting ready to brew Tibers Pil on the recipe page, will this work for that?

 

[nygel74]

I just made my first pilsner about a month and a half ago. I think the single infusion is fine for the first time, just keep it in the upper 140s and it will work. more importantly in my book was getting a grasp on the H2O profile, the yeast pitch rate, and a correct fermentation schedule. In my eyes, once I get those things dialed down, I will move on to a decoction mash. just my 2 cents.

 

[arnobg]

I know specifically you're asking about mashing but what are you planning regarding the other key factors of lager brewing?

I'm thinking the mash is a good idea.

What exactly are you wanting to know, the entire process?

I just made my first pilsner about a month and a half ago. I think the single infusion is fine for the first time, just keep it in the upper 140s and it will work. more importantly in my book was getting a grasp on the H2O profile, the yeast pitch rate, and a correct fermentation schedule. In my eyes, once I get those things dialed down, I will move on to a decoction mash. just my 2 cents.

Not to sound like I'm some expert or something because I'm not.... But I basically have my process nailed down perfect in regards to all of that except actually lagering and mashing a Pilsner. There's only a few things changing for doing a lager so I don't see the point personally in not doing the best I could the first time. The only thing I could hope to improve on next time is decoction mash like you mentioned.

 

[Double_D]

Generally, mashing is always important. With such a simple beer, everything in the process needs to be in the optimal range. Pitch rate, ferm temp, water profile become important because it needs to be clean. Just curious.

If I was to do my first lager over again, I'd stick with single infusion because it's easier to control. Even though I'm contradicting myself and I think a step mash is what's needed. Just my .02. Do you make starters for yeast and have a way to control fermentation temp?

 

[arnobg]

Generally, mashing is always important. With such a simple beer, everything in the process needs to be in the optimal range. Pitch rate, ferm temp, water profile become important because it needs to be clean. Just curious.

If I was to do my first lager over again, I'd stick with single infusion because it's easier to control. Even though I'm contradicting myself and I think a step mash is what's needed. Just my .02. Do you make starters for yeast and have a way to control fermentation temp?

My process is well ahead of "beginner" so yes I use proper fermentation and starters on the stir plate as well. I do appreciate the help, but I'm only really looking for advice in regards to the step mash as I have never done one before.

 

[TheBigLebrewsk1]

For high ferment ability I mash in at 105 F, beta glucan rest temp. Raise to 148 for Sacch rest for 45 mins, raise to 158 for 15 mins then 168 for 15 mins. I may adjust the durations or temps to cater to my beer whims.

 

[jekeane]

I don't want to jump right into a decoction mash so I am hoping to gain something over doing a straight up single infusion mash. I BIAB full volume or sparge with 1 gallon if needed for volume (shouldn't need to with this small grain bill) so should I or should I not do a multi-step mash with this malt?

"need" is almost always going to be debatable. I would say you don't need to. However, with BIAB you can do a full volume step mash pretty easily if you choose to. Dough in at your 1st step rest. Then slightly raise your bag of the bottom of the kettle and raise to the next step. Stirring your grains along the way or shimmying the bag around helps spread the warmth to the grains. I have also done a small stovetop decoction before mash out to get the color and possible flavor benefits of the decoction but without doing to much extra.

 

[Veldy]

If it's sold specifically as under modified then step mash, otherwise a single infusion mash is fine.

As a first time lager brewer...stick to the simple mash schedule the first time...the rest of the process will occupy your mind for the next month ;-)

 

[arnobg]

Weyermann is advertised as slightly under modified. When mashing in for step mash for BIAB, do you still do the 1.5 qt/gallon?

 

[pondjt]

A handful of acidulated malt will circumvent the need for a decoction or step mash but some will tell you there's no substitute for the traditional method. If you have the means, try it both ways and see which you like better.

 

[botigol]

Weyermann is advertised as slightly under modified. When mashing in for step mash for BIAB, do you still do the 1.5 qt/gallon?

It depends on the step schedule. Reportedly, the enzymes targeted in lower temperature rests benefit from thicker mashes. So, the one and only time that I have done a step mash so far, I started at 1qt/lb at 104°F, direct fired my kettle for the second step, added near-boiling water to raise to the third step and dilute the mash and then direct fired to reach the fourth step.

However, you could skip the change in mash consistency and direct fire your kettle with full volume.

I'll have to dig around for the reference I used for determining my schedule.

 

[dmtaylor]

Weyermann is advertised as slightly under modified.

Not true. Might be false advertising. On their website they give all the Kolbach indices for everything they make. The ones I looked at were all 37-38 minimum, which is considered moderate to well-modified, not undermodified. I'm finding it dang near impossible to locate any undermodified malt, anywhere.

 

[arnobg]

Their Bohemian floor malted notes slightly under modified in their website from what I saw. I'll have to find the page.

 

[dmtaylor]

Their Bohemian floor malted notes slightly under modified in their website from what I saw. I'll have to find the page.

There is some variance from batch to batch, but on average, per their website, this malt should never be undermodified per current 21st century definitions (less than 33% or 38% Kolbach index, depending who you ask).

 

[BucksIPA]

Mash in with 1.5 qt/lb at 145F. Hold it for 20 min. Raise it to 158F. Hold it for 30 min. Raise it to 168F. Hold it for 10 min.

I personally find the beer has better body and attenuation with the step mash profile above.

I want to make sure I get this. Its 1.5 @ whatever temp to get the mash to 145 degrees, not add 145 degree to get somehing lower.

 

[schematix]

I want to make sure I get this. Its 1.5 @ whatever temp to get the mash to 145 degrees, not add 145 degree to get somehing lower.

You want to hit 145-148 (so strike needs to be 152-158 depending upon your system) and hold that for about 40 minutes, then raise to 158-160 (no higher) for 30 minutes, then raise to 168-172 and hold for 10 minutes, then sparge.

These days I do no sparge, but mash schedule is the same.

 

[helibrewer]

If your grain has a kolbach index at 40 or higher there is no need for anything but a single infusion... The beta glucan has been broken down during malting.

 

[schematix]

If your grain has a kolbach index at 40 or higher there is no need for anything but a single infusion... The beta glucan has been broken down during malting.

No doubt it'll convert with a single infusion, but to build a beer with great fermentability, great body and killer foam/head retention, and full efficiency requires a multi-step mash like outlined above.

 

[helibrewer]

No doubt it'll convert with a single infusion, but to build a beer with great fermentability, great body and killer foam/head retention, and full efficiency requires a multi-step mash like outlined above.

My post was directed at the need for a beta glucan rest (not necessary), My opinion is that foam/head retention is a matter of foam positive proteins and isohumulone and don't feel that manipulation within the alpha/beta amylase ranges effects it at all. I mash 90% of my beers at 150F with great success, there are a couple of recipes that I mash at 155.

You have something that works so brew on

 

[BucksIPA]

Thanks for the help everyone. I posted some results over in the yeast forum, just started fermentation the other day