Bubbles in Bevseal lines

[mongoose33]

I redid the liquid lines in my keezer after I discovered that there was apparently a lot of oxygen ingress through the thinwall tubing I had been using. I used this, the BevSeal ultra line:

https://www.brewhardware.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=kegtubing316bevseal

I am absolutely buffaloed about this, because I'm getting rather significant bubbles in the lines (see attached pics).

I experimented, clearing four lines and then disconnecting two from the kegs; when I did that no bubbles appeared after a day in the disconnected ones, bubbles reappeared in the connected ones.

They're at 11psi.

I'm at a loss here. I didn't have that issue with the previous lines. It's a mess when I draw the first beer, sputtering and such, foamy, and very uncool.

Any idea what's going on here? And how to fix it?

 

[day_trippr]

Do all of your lines look like that?
Do you have an "anti-stratification fan" running 24/7?

 

[gnef]

Yea, that is a lot of gas coming out of solution. Have you swapped the test lines to see if it is consistent?

What is the temp setting of your kegerator, and how long have the kegs been at 11 psi? How did you carbonate?

 

[mongoose33]

Do all of your lines look like that?
Do you have an "anti-stratification fan" running 24/7?

Yes, they all look like that, to greater and lesser extents. The one on the left is extreme.

Yes, I have a fan running in the keezer.

Yea, that is a lot of gas coming out of solution. Have you swapped the test lines to see if it is consistent?

No, but it's in every one.

What is the temp setting of your kegerator, and how long have the kegs been at 11 psi? How did you carbonate?[/QUOTE]

Temp is now at 35, and I just checked...the fan quit. I'm not sure that's why I have the issue, because I had it before when it was running....

The kegs have been at 11 psi for weeks. They were mostly self-carbed, then I gave them a boost to close to 11psi, then let it finish as "set and forget." All of them have been at 11psi for....at least 6 weeks, most more.

I have a spare fan, I'm going to see if I can get that in there and if that helps.

 

[day_trippr]

Unless there's a common mechanical problem with all of those kegs I have to believe the problem is temperature related.
Is it possible the temperature controller isn't keeping the cabinet temperature within a small differential - like the 2°F I use?

Cheers!

 

[gnef]

Temp is now at 35, and I just checked...the fan quit. I'm not sure that's why I have the issue, because I had it before when it was running....

The kegs have been at 11 psi for weeks. They were mostly self-carbed, then I gave them a boost to close to 11psi, then let it finish as "set and forget." All of them have been at 11psi for....at least 6 weeks, most more.

I have a spare fan, I'm going to see if I can get that in there and if that helps.

Hmmmmmmmmmm. So it seems unlikely that they are overcarbed then. Do you have a spare thermometer to double check the actual temperature inside the kegerator? If you do check, check the bottom as well as the top and see if there is any significant differential.

Also, how did you cut your lines, and are they pushed all the way into the John Guest fitting? I'm wondering if there are any nucleation sites or areas of turbulent liquid flow.

Have you checked the tightest bends to see if the tubing has kinked or compressed on itself any, or if there is a crease?

After the gas is purged through the line, if you pour immediately after, is the second beer just fine in terms of head and carbonation level?

 

[mongoose33]

Unless there's a common mechanical problem with all of those kegs I have to believe the problem is temperature related.
Is it possible the temperature controller isn't keeping the cabinet temperature within a small differential - like the 2°F I use?

Cheers!

Hmmm....I have a 3-degree differential....that's certainly possible that there's largish temperature variation.

I just bought an Inkbird remote temp and hygrometer thermometer....sounds like the perfect use for it, assuming it'll go through the keezer (should work, the collar's wood).

 

[mongoose33]

Hmmmmmmmmmm. So it seems unlikely that they are overcarbed then. Do you have a spare thermometer to double check the actual temperature inside the kegerator? If you do check, check the bottom as well as the top and see if there is any significant differential.

I'll do that today. They're not overcarbed, they're perfect.

Also, how did you cut your lines, and are they pushed all the way into the John Guest fitting? I'm wondering if there are any nucleation sites or areas of turbulent liquid flow.

Have you checked the tightest bends to see if the tubing has kinked or compressed on itself any, or if there is a crease?

After the gas is purged through the line, if you pour immediately after, is the second beer just fine in terms of head and carbonation level?

I have a tubing cutter I use for cutting lines. Like below. They are pushed all the way into the JG fittings--I double-checked that when I installed them. The tubing isn't kinked or compressed or creased or anything.

After I get it going, the beer pours fine. It's that first one that sputters and foams and generally puts me in a bad humor.

 

[mongoose33]

OK, @day_trippr and @gnef; it's taken me a day or so to work all this out, but here's what I found:

I discovered the power source for the fan, a USB port, had loosened and disconnected. Further, the fan is kind of dying/dead, so I replaced it.

Before I replaced with the new fan, I tested the temp difference between the floor of the keezer and the top where the lines sit. It was about an 18-degree difference. Pretty significant.

According to the standard carb chart, beer at, say, 35 degrees can hold about 2.63 volumes of CO2 at 11psi. If that beer rises in temp 18 degrees 53, it can hold only about 1.89 volumes of CO2. So that appears to be it--the beer in the lines, at the top of the keezer, was too warm and CO2 was coming out of solution in the lines.

Once the lines were clear, the beer poured fine.

I diddled a bit with the new fan, trying to find an optimal location that would eliminate or at least reduce the temp stratification in the keezer. Got it to where it was a differential of 3 degrees or less. I also reduced the on/off temp differential from 3 degrees to two degrees. I cleared the lines, then waited overnight to see what happened.

Voila! Almost no bubbles in the lines, and the beer poured very well.

So, that appears to be it. Thanks to both of you for helping me puzzle this out. And here's the result after waiting overnight and all day to see how it did (only filled the glass to within half an inch of the top):

 

[gnef]

OK, @day_trippr and @gnef; it's taken me a day or so to work all this out, but here's what I found:

I discovered the power source for the fan, a USB port, had loosened and disconnected. Further, the fan is kind of dying/dead, so I replaced it.

Before I replaced with the new fan, I tested the temp difference between the floor of the keezer and the top where the lines sit. It was about an 18-degree difference. Pretty significant.

According to the standard carb chart, beer at, say, 35 degrees can hold about 2.63 volumes of CO2 at 11psi. If that beer rises in temp 18 degrees 53, it can hold only about 1.89 volumes of CO2. So that appears to be it--the beer in the lines, at the top of the keezer, was too warm and CO2 was coming out of solution in the lines.

Once the lines were clear, the beer poured fine.

I diddled a bit with the new fan, trying to find an optimal location that would eliminate or at least reduce the temp stratification in the keezer. Got it to where it was a differential of 3 degrees or less. I also reduced the on/off temp differential from 3 degrees to two degrees. I cleared the lines, then waited overnight to see what happened.

Voila! Almost no bubbles in the lines, and the beer poured very well.

So, that appears to be it. Thanks to both of you for helping me puzzle this out. And here's the result after waiting overnight and all day to see how it did (only filled the glass to within half an inch of the top):

View attachment 633519

Nice, I'm glad you were able to get that all figured out!

 

[day_trippr]